"copying" another game

[Sagefire135]

a friend of mine recently showed me a website that lets you play risk online with other people. i LOVE risk, and pretty much all strategy war games, so i ended up liking the site quite a bit. problem was that a free account could only play 3 games at a time, and were limited to only playing with long turn lengths (so you couldnt have a quick game, only ones that last days, or even weeks) i thought about upgrading until i saw that it was $10 for just 1 month...not close to worth it in my mind. So the new found programing part of me wants to basically copy the game and change some things to how i believe they should be.

Obviously copying a game isnt something that you really WANT to happen to your game, so i thought id ask people, is there an unwritten protocol associated with trying to replicate a game you like? with a popular game like risk there will be similarities in every game that trys to replicate it but beyond actual game mechanics how alike can you make a game before it becomes stealing the idea?

[JGadrow]

This is something that you might want to look into. Risk is probably protected by copyright and trademarked to boot. I'd start by talking to the site admins to see if they know anything about the potential legalities. Obviously, it's not a good idea to go around breaking copyright laws.

[shoespeak]

I would think that taking the graphics and layout would be a no-no. As for the game mechanics, there are plenty of Risk games online that use the same game play as the original board game.  Also another thing to think about...I have three or four different Risk type board games in my closet, which are all just clones with different graphics.

(but they could all be owned by the same people  )

[pavansss91]

if i were u i would clone it(with some changes) right away without asking in the forums.

Generally copyrights are usually used for logos,graphics,and some other names.
They don't copyright the game mechanics (that is why we have some mafia RPG's and many other games)

But be sure not to contact the admins of the game u r cloning.
Also never put up a line anywhere in your site telling "A similiar game of xxxx"
Make sure u have different graphics

[Serend]

Good information on the trademark of Risk.

In addition, there are many unofficial Risk clones, both for download and online play. Due to the history of the game's creation, there are no IP protections on the game, other than a US trademark on the word RISK when written in the distinctive red font. A list of these variations can be found at List of unofficial RISK versions.

Per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_(game)#Official_licensed_Risk_games

It would be hard to make a game in a unique genre that someone else hasnt already. As far as stealing the idea - just design the game you want too and dont steal anything from the site. (IE: Javascript, Images, Majority of the Content, Layout)

[karnedge]

I'd hate to get into a copyright and patent debate but they were originally designed to protect designs, logos and such; not ideas themselves. Jefferson wanted the system to allow innovation. If you taking the idea or concept of this RISK type game and making it better and expanding on it would be exactly what innovation is. Although you still should be weary because US copyright law and the patent system has gone backwards and demonized inventions and innovation.

[MystressNyx]

The legal issues have been pointed out repeatedly already, so from the POV of someone who has been on the opposite side of a clone attempt, I personally think it's the height of disrespect to a game owner.

Taking the basic idea is one thing, esp when you're talking about an idea that they didn't create to begin with. I mean, if I got pissy every time someone created a hacking game, I'd be one angry lady. lol

However, last year I received an e-mail inquiring about a craigslist ad requesting that someone make a clone of our game Cypher. This ad contained our address, game details, and clearly stated that they wanted it as close as humanly possible just shy of actually stealing the graphics. I poked around and found out that they had placed this request in at least 10 other locations.

After spending 5+ years on this game, let me tell you, we were livid. While they say that imitation is the highest form of flattery, anyone on the receiving end of this type of imitation will beg to differ. No one wants to see their hard work ripped off for a paltry fee and their success diminished by someone who lacks the creativity to do it for themselves.

So, a basic idea is one thing, given that nearly every idea you will ever come up with for a game has already existed in some form. However, after that, I'd suggest making them as wildly different from one another as possible.

Just my 2 cents.

[Sagefire135]

a large amount of info on exactly what i was wondering! thanks!

What about in general though? what if someone managed to create a TOTALLY new and unique game. Where nothing had ever been done before (unlikley, but for the sake of discussion). If this game was a really good game, there would definantly be people trying to duplicate it; since all the ideas are 'never before seen' this is expected. If this was your game though, how far could someone go in copying you?

for me, id rather it not be copied of course, but i think id be alright seeing everything not directly related to character improvement copied. someone copying things like battle systems, leveling rewards, or stat training woudl just irk me to no end.

[zykal]

copying something and improving it isn't necessarily a bad thing, just gotta go about it the right way. copying it exactly would be bad.

copying someone is like flattering them

[raines80]

I found this topic to be very interesting.... one of the few topics in this forum that delves into law and actual right and wrong......

I remember in the old days when I had my little geocities website.... That is where I learned Html. When I think back on it though I remember more of a Frankenstein's creation then a artistic webpage. The reason is... I must have stolen 40 different codes from 40 different sites... I would go from one site to another taking their code and changing it to fit my needs. Granted.... I wasn't creating this site for money; it was mostly just for fun.

Now, my thoughts on the topic here....

Innovations is a great thing... just as Stephen Hawkings said, "In order to create we all have had to stand on the shoulders of giants atleast once in our life."  I believe that statement to be fact, but I also believe it to be missing a section. Sure.... everyone will have to stand on the shoulder of a gaint to create something he is proud of. The guy designing the new car isn't the inventor of the car, but he is also using his own designs. Granted, his designs have been influenced over the years by his idols and by society in general, but he hasn't stolen a blueprint and drawn all over it.

I think making the RISK game a great idea! I also think that if you are able.... then you should create it from scratch.... standing on the shoulders of giants doesn't mean you had to steal their ladder to get up there......  Just a thought.

[Chris]

Innovation is a great risk. You can not make a 100% unique and innovative game, if you would it would be a total crap because too many things would not work (from my experience a reasonable assumption is 50/50, when I make innovative things then half of them ends very disappointing and had to be removed and the other half is very good and adds to the game and you don't know which one it is before you launch the game). It is about balance between cloning and innovation.

Also many people forget about another possibility which is neither cloning nor innovation. It is combining, you take two (or more which is even better) games and take from them the good things and get rid of the bad things.

Next possibility is taking from other genres or mediums. I like to add small bits of strategy mechanics to RPG. I also frequently use downloadable PC games and boardgames as source not only other online games. I can't believe that so few of my competitors use it, they just clone or combine online mafia games over and over again, without noticing the wast ocean of unused ideas around

I think it's perfectly possible to make a unique game with almost zero or very low amount of the risky innovation (personally, I would go for 20-30% of innovation and the rest of cloning/combining).

[JGadrow]

That having been said, the way you avoid risk from innovation is through playtesting and iterating over your design. It's less of a 'risk' at that point because if you have several groups of playtesters who have all tried out your new features, you have a good idea of what is working and what is not.