elemental disciplines

[Sagefire135]

I was talking with a friend about games. We came to the topic of Zelda and managed to stumble upon the use of the standard elemental disciples in games. Light, Darkness(shadow), Fire, Water, and Earth(forest). I randomly said that if i had to make a game, i wouldn't use those disciplines because they are so common and almost cliche. Had i known i was going to be called on it i would have kept my mouth shut, but i find myself wondering now what other disciplines could be used?

the only different ones i could think of were Air and Ice, plus i stole Spirit from Zelda. I am very curious now because thats all i could come up with. does anyone else here have know of anything that could reasonably fit into the group, or are you guys as lost as i am?

[toxin]

A few i found Sound, Lightning/Energy ,Poison and some links to images Link1 Link 2

[dsheroh]

A few years back, I was working on a browser-based RTS I called Crystomere and the five elemental colleges I was using were Haemomancy (Blood), Ecomancy (Nature), Psychomancy (Mind), Ferromancy (Iron/Metal), and Lumomancy (Light).  Unfortunately, I no longer seem to have the full design notes on them with the details of what falls within each sphere or the reasoning behind which counters which.

[Chris]

Light, Darkness(shadow), Fire, Water, and Earth(forest). I randomly said that if i had to make a game, i wouldn't use those disciplines because they are so common

Why? These are well known and familiar, players won't get confused and would be able to predict to some minimum extend what these do without reading manual. I would say it is a good idea to use them instead of inventing some confusing ones...

If you really want heavy originality then scrap elements all together and invent something else. Renaming elements might be a double bad choice, first it will be not familiar to casual players and second it will be called unoriginal by hardcore ones since these are still elements. No one is happy.

[JGadrow]

"Classic" Elements - which you are describing - are actually a throw-back to ancient religious beliefs and "scientific" theory and there are minor variations on them depending upon ideology. In the modern age, we "know" the elements that are present on the periodic table of the elements.

Hopefully that will give you some food for thought.

[Glenugie]

I know in Ennui I use Emotional Elements, i.e Anger, Depression, Fear, Glee and Surprise. More for originality than anything else

[Sagefire135]

Chris: When i say, 'i wouldnt use them' i was thinking of them in a setting where magic wasnt a cornerstone of the game. For instance the sage of fire in zelda has little to do with the actual element of fire, it has everything to do with a location and the story. the magic aspect of fire in rather minor and comes from completely separate areas in the game. so using a more obscure 'element' of Energy would translate into a magic ability to throw a bolt of pure energy instead of a whole magic tree with a bunch of different spells.

JGadrow: That makes perfect sense now that i see the connection. But having a magic tree that covers all things Yttrium or Iridium would make practically no sense lol. and it would confuse the hell out of players too

[Chris]

Chris: When i say, 'i wouldnt use them' i was thinking of them in a setting where magic wasnt a cornerstone of the game. For instance the sage of fire in zelda has little to do with the actual element of fire, it has everything to do with a location and the story. the magic aspect of fire in rather minor and comes from completely separate areas in the game. so using a more obscure 'element' of Energy would translate into a magic ability to throw a bolt of pure energy instead of a whole magic tree with a bunch of different spells.

Me not understanding this statement


Anyway, "original" elements (I still think the standard ones are better): Gravity, Acceleration, Radiation, Entrophy (destruction), Metamorphosis, Logic, Transformation, Reconstruction (healing), Empathy, Relocation (teleport), Heat (fire ), Photon (light), Negation (counter), Leafing (the art of changing tree's leaves to something else, OK, maybe a bit to weird )

[JGadrow]

lol Yeah, it was more of a way to get you thinking on your own rather than saying, "Dude! You should totally allow me to use spells with Uranium!" lol

Mostly, I was trying to imply a relationship between belief and elements. If you're the creator of the game world, you're allowed to alter it's underlying belief structure which has ramifications for their elements. I think a great example of how you can expand the elements is the chineese example in the wiki link that I provided. Give it a read through and see how they create an elemental cycle. Or, even the chakras which map elements to specified parts of the body.

[dsheroh]

If you really want heavy originality then scrap elements all together and invent something else. Renaming elements might be a double bad choice, first it will be not familiar to casual players and second it will be called unoriginal by hardcore ones since these are still elements. No one is happy.

When you get down to it, though, how is "elements" different than any other way of grouping units/abilities?  e.g., In qualitative terms, how is "water trumps fire" any different from "flak cannon trumps fighter-bombers"?  The only real difference is that "anti-aircraft weaponry" and "ground support aircraft" are called "unit types" instead of "elements", isn't it?

JGadrow: That makes perfect sense now that i see the connection. But having a magic tree that covers all things Yttrium or Iridium would make practically no sense lol. and it would confuse the hell out of players too

Read up a bit on chemistry and you just might be able to come up with some potentially interesting relationships based on real-world relationships within the periodic table...  "I'll just throw out an Oxidate spell, then watch you crumble and burn."  "Fool!  You can't Oxidate my Argon Shield!"  (OK, yeah, that's a pretty simple elemental counter, but it was the first thing that popped into my head.)

[Sagefire135]

*has a BS in physics and chemistry*
what happens if you buy an incompatible shield and sword though? i woudnt want to go into battle against a mage with Del Q bolt, i might find myself a nasty byproduct of a reaction.  lol

[JGadrow]

Actually... that might make for a really cool game! lol It could get pretty intense!