Offline Business for Crafters

[AltarofScience]

I would like some help in exploring offline options for players. In my game players either stay in their current location while logged out or they can travel to a designated location to stay for economic or defense purposes.

In this specific case I am concerned with the option to travel to their shop.
Players in their shop can set their character to provide various services related to crafting.
You can set a list of spell buffs for items your character can cast while offline.
You can set a list of enchantments your character can perform on items.
You can set services like mixing potions, crafting certain items, writing inscriptions on weapons and so forth.
Crafting takes an amount of time based on the task, so you may not want to allow your character to craft certain items for other players.
These services are in addition to items sold at shops.

Additionally, some players may not be able to afford their own shops.
Owners of towns and buildings can create shops or market areas to rent to players who cannot afford to buy one.
So you can build solid permanent shop buildings which can be rented out to people who can provide good produce and charge money for their use.
You can also hold markets within your town where players can pay a fee to have a market stall. These stalls are much smaller than a store but cheaper.

I think it is quite irritating both to have to do wtb and wts shouts in townish areas in standard mmorpgs and also to not be able to get certain enhancements done if players are offline.
I would really like to simplify this and make it possible for more accesability in player trades.

Do you have any other ideas for such things? I may update the list as I conceive of new possibilities.

[Chris]

First, reading things you posted in "my" economy topic it seems you are very fixated on realism. NPCs don't have to eat. There don't have to be distances to travel to shops. These can, but don't have to. It is your choice. Players won't sue you

So, I would first decide what level of realism you want. Tell us and then we can give you feedback that would be compatible with your choice.

Again, you rearely have to design thing a certain way in a game, you have more freedomj as a designer that you seem to assume.

some players may not be able to afford their own shops.

Again, you want them to be unableable to afford a shop OR you want them to affordt it but the mechanic of the game prevent them from being able to afford it? Because, if it is only that you would want them all to afford but don't know how to do it, I can provide several ideas

[AltarofScience]

First, reading things you posted in "my" economy topic it seems you are very fixated on realism. NPCs don't have to eat. There don't have to be distances to travel to shops. These can, but don't have to. It is your choice. Players won't sue you

So, I would first decide what level of realism you want. Tell us and then we can give you feedback that would be compatible with your choice.

Again, you rearely have to design thing a certain way in a game, you have more freedomj as a designer that you seem to assume.

some players may not be able to afford their own shops.

Again, you want them to be unableable to afford a shop OR you want them to affordt it but the mechanic of the game prevent them from being able to afford it? Because, if it is only that you would want them all to afford but don't know how to do it, I can provide several ideas

i don't want them all to be able to get a shop easily. i know how to do it if i want.

i want shops to be a prestige thing, which also happens to vastly improve economic fortunes.
the reason i want to have the ability to rent shops or stalls is because it adds some business simulation to the game. lots of people love econ sims in games, even rpgs.

this is not really about shops so much, as allowing players to provide or access services to other players without having to have both people logged on.
the easier it is to cooperate with other players for benefit, the more likely they are to do it.

i don't assume things need to be a certain way in a game, i would just like for them to be. i do prefer realism in many cases. however, i have played many browser games with ridiculously artificial economies and had a decent amount of fun.

[Chris]

I don't think shops should be a prestige facility. Having a castle (preferably floating in the air, powered by magic crystals) this IS a sign of prestinge But a shop? Nah

Let players sell "scrolls" with enchantments/services. They don't have to be online then to perform it. Problem solved.
I also think that's how they usually/always do it in other games?

[AltarofScience]

I don't think shops should be a prestige facility. Having a castle (preferably floating in the air, powered by magic crystals) this IS a sign of prestinge But a shop? Nah

Let players sell "scrolls" with enchantments/services. They don't have to be online then to perform it. Problem solved.
I also think that's how they usually/always do it in other games?

im pretty sure in most games you have to have enchanting skill and enchant the item. do you play a lot of mmorpgs?
also shops are buildings. all buildings in the game are built by players. so players have to get the mats and labor to build a shop. and this game is all about location. players with towns for instance. towns take a long time to build and money and res. the only value in having a town is that its likely the only town in an area so players have to use it.

[Chris]

im pretty sure in most games you have to have enchanting skill and enchant the item. do you play a lot of mmorpgs?

Would I be able to finish coding any game if I were? ;-) I logged to Runescape twice, 6 or 7 years ago. So I guess it does not counts as playing these often

and this game is all about location

I really think you should reconsider the medium. 3D engine sounds more compatible with your ideas...

Anyway, if you don't like scrolls another solution could be an autometed service mode. When you logout you auto enchant all items put in front of you as long as they put X gold (which you auto pickup first). I don't like that one too much...

But, maybe you should not want them to be able to do enchantments when offline? What is the pace of your game? Maybe it is better if they have done what they do personally only? Some people like time consuming games.

[AltarofScience]

im pretty sure in most games you have to have enchanting skill and enchant the item. do you play a lot of mmorpgs?

Would I be able to finish coding any game if I were? ;-) I logged to Runescape twice, 6 or 7 years ago. So I guess it does not counts as playing these often

and this game is all about location

I really think you should reconsider the medium. 3D engine sounds more compatible with your ideas...

Anyway, if you don't like scrolls another solution could be an autometed service mode. When you logout you auto enchant all items put in front of you as long as they put X gold (which you auto pickup first). I don't like that one too much...

But, maybe you should not want them to be able to do enchantments when offline? What is the pace of your game? Maybe it is better if they have done what they do personally only? Some people like time consuming games.

Players can choose whether or not to provide offline services. They can choose which offline services they will provide based on their capabilities. This makes it easier for people to find a person to provide help in item crafting, which would be harder if the player had to be offline. If it was too hard to find someone to enchant, players would just level their enchant skills. That is what I don't want. I mean they can do it, but ideally they wouldn't have to.
Ideally I would have a 3d world yes, but that is too expensive. Also I would need so many art assets. It boggles the mind.

[jack13580]

Players can choose whether or not to provide offline services. They can choose which offline services they will provide based on their capabilities. This makes it easier for people to find a person to provide help in item crafting, which would be harder if the player had to be offline. If it was too hard to find someone to enchant, players would just level their enchant skills. That is what I don't want. I mean they can do it, but ideally they wouldn't have to.
Ideally I would have a 3d world yes, but that is too expensive. Also I would need so many art assets. It boggles the mind.

just to tell you its free to make a 3d engine you can learn c++ and openGL from googling and youtube and books and other places dev C++ is free so is codeblocks and many other programs  to work with c++ and openGL what many people don't know is that you don't nead art to do the terrain in the 3d game all you nead to know is how to work with colors and GIMP which is also free or photoshop or even paint and you can even use C++ to create the images even though its harder but with just using colors i made a somewhat minecraft like terrain which looked nice for one of my school projects  even though im paying for the school you can still do this for free like go to this website it wll teach how how to make a nice pong like 3d game for free with no catches http://www.videotutorialsrock.com/ and thats just C++ theres also java which is easier to learn just harder to use 3d in and many other stuff

the only thing you would actualy nead graphics for is the characters and buildings and trees and other stuff

and with java theres many help forums with experienced people who can help you with a problem

and even though it might take a long time you could finish a project like this in atleast 5 years if your slow maybie 3 or 2 if your fast and staty on track but the only thing that will cost money is the electric bill and internet bill

[AltarofScience]

Players can choose whether or not to provide offline services. They can choose which offline services they will provide based on their capabilities. This makes it easier for people to find a person to provide help in item crafting, which would be harder if the player had to be offline. If it was too hard to find someone to enchant, players would just level their enchant skills. That is what I don't want. I mean they can do it, but ideally they wouldn't have to.
Ideally I would have a 3d world yes, but that is too expensive. Also I would need so many art assets. It boggles the mind.

just to tell you its free to make a 3d engine you can learn c++ and openGL from googling and youtube and books and other places dev C++ is free so is codeblocks and many other programs  to work with c++ and openGL what many people don't know is that you don't nead art to do the terrain in the 3d game all you nead to know is how to work with colors and GIMP which is also free or photoshop or even paint and you can even use C++ to create the images even though its harder but with just using colors i made a somewhat minecraft like terrain which looked nice for one of my school projects  even though im paying for the school you can still do this for free like go to this website it wll teach how how to make a nice pong like 3d game for free with no catches http://www.videotutorialsrock.com/ and thats just C++ theres also java which is easier to learn just harder to use 3d in and many other stuff

the only thing you would actualy nead graphics for is the characters and buildings and trees and other stuff

and with java theres many help forums with experienced people who can help you with a problem

and even though it might take a long time you could finish a project like this in atleast 5 years if your slow maybie 3 or 2 if your fast and staty on track but the only thing that will cost money is the electric bill and internet bill

i know that. but it costs more money to HOST a 3d game than text. whats the point of making the game if people can't play.

[jack13580]

dude i have an online server for an old private game i made and only costs 30$ a month and the website name was free and they let me configure the server how i want i get to do what i want with it and its always online hosting24.com and you can host it yourself which is much more diffucult just cheaper only catch is you have to keep computer on 24/7 and in a well ventilated room

[jack13580]

trust me i have done a lot of research into this stuff due to a long dream of wanting to own my own working mmorpg that i made myself

[jack13580]

one more thing you can have it to where if people want the best items and stuff they have to pay real money through pay pal or something else and eventualy you will start making more then you loose

[AltarofScience]

dude i have an online server for an old private game i made and only costs 30$ a month and the website name was free and they let me configure the server how i want i get to do what i want with it and its always online hosting24.com and you can host it yourself which is much more diffucult just cheaper only catch is you have to keep computer on 24/7 and in a well ventilated room

i have a silver account on hosting24.com for my various text based games. 30$ a month is a lot more than the 7.84$ a month i pay to host a text game.

[AltarofScience]

one more thing you can have it to where if people want the best items and stuff they have to pay real money through pay pal or something else and eventualy you will start making more then you loose

i despise pay to win games.

[jack13580]

dude your cheap and what i mean by the best items being bought i mean that the player can still get good items and win with those without paying lol even though it would cost the player money don't make them invincable with the tem just make it a little stronger then the normal items so that if a player who hasn't paid money if they have skill they can still take down the player who paid

[jack13580]

and i made a mistake i ment to say 7.84$ a month i was thinking of a different hosting service

[Chris]

dude i have an online server for an old private game i made and only costs 30$ a month and the website name was free and they let me configure the server how i want i get to do what i want with it and its always online hosting24.com and you can host it yourself which is much more diffucult just cheaper only catch is you have to keep computer on 24/7 and in a well ventilated room

i have a silver account on hosting24.com for my various text based games. 30$ a month is a lot more than the 7.84$ a month i pay to host a text game.

You can't "host" a text game on a $10 "server" I know people who pay $700/month to host their "text game" If you want to make an online game you have to secure some revenue, otherwise there is no point starting.

[AltarofScience]

dude i have an online server for an old private game i made and only costs 30$ a month and the website name was free and they let me configure the server how i want i get to do what i want with it and its always online hosting24.com and you can host it yourself which is much more diffucult just cheaper only catch is you have to keep computer on 24/7 and in a well ventilated room

i have a silver account on hosting24.com for my various text based games. 30$ a month is a lot more than the 7.84$ a month i pay to host a text game.

You can't "host" a text game on a $10 "server" I know people who pay $700/month to host their "text game" If you want to make an online game you have to secure some revenue, otherwise there is no point starting.

i disagree. you can't host a wildly successful text game on a 10$ server. but unless i have well over 500 users, i dont have a problem.

[saljutin]

You can't "host" a text game on a $10 "server" I know people who pay $700/month to host their "text game" If you want to make an online game you have to secure some revenue, otherwise there is no point starting.

cmon Chris - 700$/month this is either BIG text game in terms of users OR in terms of unoptimized and why do they need to pay 700$...i mean which resource they need to invest into - BW, ram, disk, processor, ...

[Chris]

You can't "host" a text game on a $10 "server" I know people who pay $700/month to host their "text game" If you want to make an online game you have to secure some revenue, otherwise there is no point starting.

cmon Chris - 700$/month this is either BIG text game in terms of users OR in terms of unoptimized and why do they need to pay 700$...i mean which resource they need to invest into - BW, ram, disk, processor, ...

This was the extreme example And yes, I guess it must have been terribly unoptimized. Anyway, $100/month is more "averagish".

[hiigara]

A game with a 100 simultaneous users at all times already generates a fair revenue. A basic $20 VPS can handle 100 simultaneous users easily.

[AltarofScience]

A game with a 100 simultaneous users at all times already generates a fair revenue. A basic $20 VPS can handle 100 simultaneous users easily.

and my game is unlikely to ever have 100 simultaneous users.

[Mutant]

Just a question: have you actually developed and play tested the game so far, or are you designing things in your head (or on paper)? I would recommend getting some core elements of the game done, then seeing how it actually plays before trying to build extremely complex/intricate functionality that might not even work. It's amazing how an idea can seem good, but just doesn't work in practice.

A lot of your ideas sound interesting, but might be missing the "fun" factor... that's pretty critical to getting people to play the game.... fun trumps realism every time.

[AltarofScience]

Just a question: have you actually developed and play tested the game so far, or are you designing things in your head (or on paper)? I would recommend getting some core elements of the game done, then seeing how it actually plays before trying to build extremely complex/intricate functionality that might not even work. It's amazing how an idea can seem good, but just doesn't work in practice.

A lot of your ideas sound interesting, but might be missing the "fun" factor... that's pretty critical to getting people to play the game.... fun trumps realism every time.

If you don't like crafting you probably can't understand. There are millions of people who love crafting and econ. my main limitation is graphics not being AAA level, and not the economy. the fun factor is like any other fun factor, relative.

[arai]

I'm considering giving characters a scheduler option, so they can set their character's activities into the near future.  They would effectively be handed off to AI control, however they would obviously be at a disadvantage when doing so.