Raid & conquest

[Chris]

There are turns given hourly, these are used on attacking.
Attacking can yeld resources.
Attacking can yeld territory(land) gain (no map of any kind, just 1 variable).
Resource gain is affected by score difference (attacking too low in ranking is poor choice).
Land gain depends on land difference (attacking someone with too low land yelds nothing).


Now I have dilemma how to proceed further. Generally there are 3 choices.

a)
1 type of turn
1 type of attack that give resources & land

b)
1 type of turn
2 type of attacks, one give resources, the other give land

c)
2 type of turns (one for each attack type)
2 type of attacks

[tellmore]

I vote B.

[saljutin]

I would choose B
so player have only 1 type of turns, and it is up to him which strategy will he use e.g. will he capture some land or resources

[raestlyn]

Resource gain is affected by score difference (attacking too low in ranking is poor choice).
Land gain depends on land difference (attacking someone with too low land yelds nothing).

Umm, wouldn't that cause High Score Low Land strategies to be best choice? They can attack anyone with max gains and if they get attacked they lose next to nothing.
I vote for C.

[Chris]

Resource gain is affected by score difference (attacking too low in ranking is poor choice).
Land gain depends on land difference (attacking someone with too low land yelds nothing).

Umm, wouldn't that cause High Score Low Land strategies to be best choice? They can attack anyone with max gains and if they get attacked they lose next to nothing.

You meant low score, low land strategy?
Low land strategy works, but if it works it means you are getting land and if you are getting land you are not low land anymore
Low score is a bit different and indeed it could work.

[raestlyn]

No, high score low land (high score compared to the land you have). Utopia had same kind of idea, and it caused certain kind of topfeeding strategy be dominant. Then they changed the gains formula, and Low score High land strategies were great. Now they have balanced it so both can be successfull.

[Chris]

No, high score low land (high score compared to the land you have). Utopia had same kind of idea, and it caused certain kind of topfeeding strategy be dominant. Then they changed the gains formula, and Low score High land strategies were great. Now they have balanced it so both can be successfull.

Interesting..., can you write more about it? How exactly could you abuse high score, low land strategy?

[raestlyn]

High score (networth in Utopia) per acre (nwpa) did mean you had more power per land acre you had. Your networth was affected by Science you had, your troops (Defense specialists, Offensive Specialists and Elites who had higher NW than specialists), Buildings and unbuilt land.
First the attack gains was based on NW but did consider land for minimum and maximum gains. Because you had less land you did lose less than others who had normal nw for their landsize, but you propably had same amount of attack and defense power so you would hit for max gains.
Then the formula was changed so it calculated teh gains by land with consideration of nw in gains.
Before 200+ nwpa was good, but after the change the optimal builds opted for 100ish.
After a round or 2 it was changed to this:
Age 20-21 Traditional March (basic attack) gains formula

Code: [Select]

OpponentRelativeSize = (AttackerLand / DefenderLand)
Modifiers = forts, fanat, race bonus, relations bonus, etc.
MaxGain = AttackerLand * 0.175
MinGain = Gain * 0.8

if (AttackerLand <= DefenderLand)
{
x = OpponentRelativeSize
a = -0.0877910
b = 0.210011
c = DefenderLand
d = Modifiers
Gain = x * (a / x + b) * c * d
}

if (AttackerLand > DefenderLand)
{
x = OpponentRelativeSize
a = -0.41787
b = 0.0071030
c = 4.7451
d = -0.00031306
e = DefenderLand
f = Modifiers
Gain = x * ((a + x) / (b + c * x) + d * x^2) * e * f
}

if (Gain > MaxGain)
{
Gain = MaxGain
}


Here is a link to discussions: Utopia Temple Research subforum..
you should find about any formula there.

And here is another intresting page: http://www.utopiatemple.com/muaddib

[Chris]

I though Utopia was about getting land not resources... Well, I never understood this game (while I like the concept very much, a strange combination ).
So, do you attack to get resources? Or land? Or both? Which is the "real reason" from player's perspective?

Do you know of any game (similar concept) where primary purpose of attack is getting land? Would it work out?

[Bryan]

Ever here of Unification Wars?  Or Galactic Conquest?

Both games use attacking to gain planets (they are sci-fi empire builder/war games).  People attack for 2 reasons in both games: 1 - to gain planets (land) which increases their profits per turn, or to kill another players ships.

You can actually play UW and never bother with attacking much at all - you can explore for planets up to a certain limit, and then build projects that gain you planets.  Build a defensive fleet and you never lose planets, or at least I didn't lose many when I played.

I would have to say, in the UW and GC games, attacking for land works pretty good.