Building Browser-Based Casual MMOs

[Xavier]

It's a presentation from Adobe MAX 2009 Conference about building PBBG.

http://2009.max.adobe.com/online/session/39

It's about 1 hour long.

Share similar resources here if you have any.

[JGadrow]

Awesome! I haven't listened to much of it yet, but by viewing the chapters sidebar it appears to talk about many facets of BBG development. This will probably be a very good reference for all of those "how do I get started" questions, I bet.

[dbest]

Have bookmarked this for later viewing. Looks really interesting.

[Marek]

Interesting presentation. But not quite a "how to get started". It's more about planning decisions and business concepts. The presenter compares browser games to downloadable games, and how they differ in terms of demographics and monetization, etc.

Then he says the only good platform for browser games is Flash. (surprise surprise. It's an Adobe presentation). He even goes on to say "I wouldn't even think of browser games in anything else than Flash."

So while it's a very interesting overview of the field, including successes like Puzzle Pirates, Habbo hotel and Runescape, there's not much in there about the basics of php PBBGs. It's worth a watch, nevertheless.

He makes a particular point worth remembering: there is often a "cliff" when users sign up to a game. For instance, you might see a lot of people visiting, but few of them signing up. The more you demand from the users when they sign up, the steeper the cliff. But at the same time, the players that DO sign up are more dedicated and more likely to stay. I wonder what's the best balance between the two. I think most PBBGs demand a lot from users when they sign up (as opposed a hypothetical scheme where you might just ask to choose a username first, then let the player play, and give them the option of creating a permanent account with a password and email, etc, if they want to)

[jannesiera]

Have bookmarked this for later viewing. Looks really interesting.

Same here. I'm a little disappointed by what nano said though , about the flash stuff.

[Nox]

20 employees, year and half of developement, $2M spent, 1 month running... thats hell of a disaster

Number of good points though

[Chris]

20 employees, year and half of developement, $2M spent, 1 month running... thats hell of a disaster

Number of good points though

I got busted a few times as well, but it was only me, no cash and like months of commitment

As for the presentation, I was funny when he called KoL "an example of a small one". Geez, KoL small game, I wish my was 1/10th of it's smallinest

[jannesiera]

As for the presentation, I was funny when he called KoL "an example of a small one". Geez, KoL small game, I wish my was 1/10th of it's smallinest

True. Though you said you had like 30 games in another thread, so if you had dedicated all that time in one game it would be somewhat bigger, no?

I haven't seen the presentation yet but I guess he's aiming at big companies with a lot of money, so they like to think big. They chase the money. For me one of the best points of browser games is that it's not about the money. It's about the passion. That's probably the reason he aims at flash games since they're slightly easier to monetise (read: you don't have to be creative to monetise flash games).

Anyway I don't have time to watch it so I'll get back to my schoolbooks now .

// Edit

Just read this small blogpost (instead of my schoolbooks) the writer just "twittered" about programming language to make games: http://andrewwooldridge.com/blog/2009/11/11/the-worlds-best-game-programming-language/

[KoI]

Then he says the only good platform for browser games is Flash. (surprise surprise. It's an Adobe presentation). He even goes on to say "I wouldn't even think of browser games in anything else than Flash."

You have to keep his words in context though.  He mentions the benefits that the PHP & MySQL model is good for, as well as the Java model.  He's approaching games from having the resources to put together a team of people backed by a significant venture capital investment... something that none of us here probably will have access to.

So when he said that, I took it to mean, if you have the resources to put together a team capable of developing code, art assets, marketing and managing, you're probably not going to choose PHP as your first option and primary development of the backend.

If you're some Joe developer doing this when you have some free time when you get home from your 9-5, then the other solutions work great too.

[Marek]

Just read this small blogpost (instead of my schoolbooks) the writer just "twittered" about programming language to make games: http://andrewwooldridge.com/blog/2009/11/11/the-worlds-best-game-programming-language/

The WORLDS BEST GAME PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE is…
the one you already know.

I think that's true, but only sometimes. When you want to whip up a prototype or just a small, quick, project, then I agree. But when your project has to be GOOD at what it does, then the language you pick makes or breaks it.

For instance, Python is easy and quick, and can do almost anything you need. But if you're performing calculations and algorithms that require speed and efficiency, then your project will perhaps be okay, but it won't be GOOD at what it does.

Or, take PHP. It's perfect for web projects, but try to use it for something else, and its limitations are apparent.  I once made an IRC bot in PHP (yes, it's possible, thanks to PHP's ability to run from the command line). I thought: well, I already know PHP, and it will take me longer to learn a new language, so why not? Well, my IRC bot worked, but I would never attempt that again. And thankfully, I've learned Python and Java since then.

Anyway, about Flash as a platform: Other than the graphics/ui capabilities of Flash, there is one more big difference: PHP is not  asynchronous. PHP can only function with sequences of HTTP requests and responses, while in Flash you can have constant packets going back and forth and updating things on the screen. Although AJAX can pull this off, it's more of a workaround.

[shoespeak]

Hey thanks for the great link.

One thing that I think is an important distinguishing feature between using Flash and using PHP is that a Flash game takes a while to load. Even on great internet connections, the user is still going to wait for a few minutes before they can play the game. That means when they go to play, they are going to be sitting down for more than a few minutes playing. Contrast this to a PBBG that uses PHP/MySQL...the user can just hop online real quick and check if they have any messages, or use up their characters energy, or check the market.

Also,  I don't have a ton of experience with this, but it seems to me like PHP/MySQl games are a lot more accessible to those using smart phones and other things to connect to the internet. If you are on your phone waiting for the bus, it is a lot easier to play a php game then load up a flash applet (I would think) and to actually play that game on the phone.

Flash is great, no doubt. I have played a ton of web games over the years, and the Flash ones almost always look better and "feel" like they have more "action." However, when it comes to killing time between classes, or playing a  game while at work, etc....PHP always wins out.  

Edit: I guess what it comes down to is (for me) is that PHP/MySQL games are way more "Casual" than Flash games.

[jannesiera]

I agree with shoespeak. Php games tend to be closer to the "real" benefits and character of PBBG's.

[Chris]

As for the presentation, I was funny when he called KoL "an example of a small one". Geez, KoL small game, I wish my was 1/10th of it's smallinest

True. Though you said you had like 30 games in another thread, so if you had dedicated all that time in one game it would be somewhat bigger, no?

30 game worlds, not different "coded" games and not all managed by me.
Anyway, I don't think it is about dedication alone. There seems to be a natural limit to what a game can grow, and no matter what you do (except for pumping money via advertising) will make it grow further. I don't know why it is this way, but without doubt it is.

That's probably the reason he aims at flash games since they're slightly easier to monetise (read: you don't have to be creative to monetise flash games).

Hmmm, I wonder if flash MMOs are indeed easier to monetarise. It will bring more kids, but not necessarily adults with cash. Flash games (singleplayer) are known for having very poor monetarisation in general (for example the trick to advertise BBG is to filter out flash sites, since users from there do not bring income, at least that's what I heard from people dealing with promotion). I wonder if flash MMO would be better or worse than HTML one...

Just read this small blogpost (instead of my schoolbooks) the writer just "twittered" about programming language to make games: http://andrewwooldridge.com/blog/2009/11/11/the-worlds-best-game-programming-language/

Is this link correct? I got timed out several times I tried to check it...

[shoespeak]

Hmmm, I wonder if flash MMOs are indeed easier to monetarise. It will bring more kids, but not necessarily adults with cash. Flash games (singleplayer) are known for having very poor monetarisation in general (for example the trick to advertise BBG is to filter out flash sites, since users from there do not bring income, at least that's what I heard from people dealing with promotion). I wonder if flash MMO would be better or worse than HTML one...

I'm not sure if adults with cash is the only demographic that will provide money. I know a few different parents that will buy paid runescape subscriptions for their kids just to keep them busy and entertained. There are also teenagers that have jobs and will throw a few bucks in to get an extra advantage. And also, think of the games like Club Penguin that target mostly children and yet still have a pretty good stream of revenue.

However, I would probably agree with you that HTML seems easier to monetize, because it seems like you can offer more in exchange for the cash....but I don't have too much expiereince with flash games so this is just my opinion.

Also, the link is working for me.

[jannesiera]

As for the presentation, I was funny when he called KoL "an example of a small one". Geez, KoL small game, I wish my was 1/10th of it's smallinest

True. Though you said you had like 30 games in another thread, so if you had dedicated all that time in one game it would be somewhat bigger, no?

30 game worlds, not different "coded" games and not all managed by me.
Anyway, I don't think it is about dedication alone. There seems to be a natural limit to what a game can grow, and no matter what you do (except for pumping money via advertising) will make it grow further. I don't know why it is this way, but without doubt it is.

Not speaking from experience, I think you're right. The quality of the game will have a lot to do with it. When the game doesn't change, the marketing tactics don't change or when the managing doesn't change it makes a lot of sense . Even when you advertise more. When you change the game, marketing tactics and managing, however, it should potential grow more, don't you think? What's your experience with this?

That's probably the reason he aims at flash games since they're slightly easier to monetise (read: you don't have to be creative to monetise flash games).

Hmmm, I wonder if flash MMOs are indeed easier to monetarise. It will bring more kids, but not necessarily adults with cash. Flash games (singleplayer) are known for having very poor monetarisation in general (for example the trick to advertise BBG is to filter out flash sites, since users from there do not bring income, at least that's what I heard from people dealing with promotion). I wonder if flash MMO would be better or worse than HTML one...

Right now I can't remember AT ALL why I said this... Shoespeak has a few points there.

Just read this small blogpost (instead of my schoolbooks) the writer just "twittered" about programming language to make games: http://andrewwooldridge.com/blog/2009/11/11/the-worlds-best-game-programming-language/

Is this link correct? I got timed out several times I tried to check it...

The link is correct.