Evony

[zolacat999]

Just read this and I though that it was interesting, http://hubpages.com/hub/Evony-Free-Forever You might want to have a read it just goes over how much money evony is making and how they are exploiting people

[Xavier]

I don't know. I read this article and my first thoughts were:

Who wrote such crap?

Seriously, as I read through I was hearing a moaning teenager
that is for some strange reason jealous of people that can
afford to buy themselves some upgrades.

And what scares me the most is that people might be spending more than $100.

You're scared, so f*n what. This is business. Developers worked their
faces off to complete a game that is obviuosly quite good and then they
had to market it. Now they're just doing what EVERY reasonable person
would do.

The Evony developers are still trying to squeeze as much money out of players
before they realise the game Evony does not have any substance.

They're doing this by sending players in-game mails telling what promotions they're
putting on now.  It sounds like a rug store to me.

If people pay, then this game has some "substance" for them.

And to me it sounds like a... newsletter. Honestly, every e-shop that you registered in
do the same thing. Every TV show is interrupted by commercials and you don't cry about that.

It pissed me a little. I'm done.

[shoespeak]

I have been seeing ads for this game everywhere in the last few months...any website I visit on a semi daily basis i see these ads...which are just images of pretty busty women. No idea what the game is about...but if I register I'll be playing with all sorts of gorgeous women (or, thats what they want me to think.)

[JGadrow]

Yeah, the ads are a little sleazy. But, then again, all ads are just sleazy attempts to gain your business. So, they don't really bother me. I just ignore them and try not to go onto sites that feature advertisements while I'm at work because it looks like I'm on the wrong sort of site! lol

[Chris]

What wonders me is why pople play this kind of games. I have seen several of these already (identical mechanics just different theme). There are huge amounts of paid options, I mean huge. Like 30% of buttons/items I think Not to mention quality, you might not see it since English version is probably OK, but Polish one has very broken translation. What is so difficult in translating all items (when you already have translated some)? I would understand error meassages, or interface, but half of items in different language? This is not a technical problem, they just don't care...

But still, players play it for some reason I would love to understand why... Is it really that you just make a 100% cloned game with 0% originality, put gorgeous pictures, pump huge amount of money into advertising and don't worry about support or testing? And that's it, you have the most popular game ever? When I see these games it makes me wonder if I don't make my games the completely wrong way

[jannesiera]

But still, players play it for some reason I would love to understand why... Is it really that you just make a 100% cloned game with 0% originality, put gorgeous pictures, pump huge amount of money into advertising and don't worry about support or testing? And that's it, you have the most popular game ever? When I see these games it makes me wonder if I don't make my games the completely wrong way

The problem is that popularity won't last. Only if they keep pumping in huge amounts of advertising money. Why people play them? I guess it's because they don't take the time to find something better... You should also not forget that all the commotion about the whole Evony affaire has brought them lots of adversing, reaching people who would normally not easily get into browser games, be mentioned on numerous sites, have people look deeper into the features, probably also HUGE seo boost, etc.

I am convinced though that they won't hold their success. If there is one thing all big bbgames (eg Ogame, Neopets, Tribal Wars, Travian, ... ) have in common it's original gameplay and balanced content.

I believe the makers of Evony are people wanting to make a quick buck bye ripping of people. It bothers me a lot because the bbgames community and industry is important to me. Evony is a disgrace to all of us, PBBG developers. So I completely disagree with Xavier (I've not read THAT article but know there's a lot of evidence proving the bad intentions of the people behind Evony). I agree with JGadrow that the ads themselves don't really bother me that much but like I said I'm very displeased by the whole Evony thing.

I have never talked about them before though, because I know I'm only providing them with cheap advertising...

[zolacat999]

Thats the feeling I get, they arrived quickly and are taking alot of money ruthlessly. I agree that business is business but an option to spend $3000 at once is a little to much   

[Xavier]

I disagree. Any amount of money is good as long as there're pople willing to pay.
It reminds me of an iPhone App sold for 100k or 1m (I don't remember). The only
thing that this App did was displaying a message "You own the most expensive
iPhone App" or something of that sort. They sold more than 10 of those.

There are people on this world that don't know what to do with their money,
they have everything, even too much and they are bored. And their kids are
bored too. Why not take advantage of them?

[JGadrow]

Why not take advantage of them?

Well, because it's wrong. However, the people with $100K or $1M that can afford to spend it on something they weren't even sure what in the hell it was almost certainly achieved that amount of liquid income by exploiting their respective markets, firing employees on Christmas Eve, and parking in handicapped spaces simply because they can afford the fine and don't want to walk an extra 8 feet. So, I say go ahead and take that person's money!

But, as far as the discussion as a whole goes: Place any amount you want for services. There's a healthy portion of your population who will see $3000 and laugh their asses off. But, maybe it's worth it to one or two individuals. Who knows?

Simply because you do not have the disposable income to purchase a service does not mean that others would never be able to afford it. Personally, I think anyone who drops $3000 on a single game should be given some sort of court-mandated rehabilitation program, but that's just me.

[Xavier]

It's because you, as well as me, as well as any other
developer in this forum, know the value of money.

[jannesiera]

Simply because you do not have the disposable income to purchase a service does not mean that others would never be able to afford it. Personally, I think anyone who drops $3000 on a single game should be given some sort of court-mandated rehabilitation program, but that's just me.

That's exactly what the problem is. Some people can't handle money or are addicted, yes, to games. We, as developers, should take responsibility. That doesn't only count for the game industry but for every business. Life is not about taking advantage of people. It's hard to discuss about it because it's a matter of ethics. I believe that everyone, no matter what they do for living, should takes his or her own responsibility in things.

Game addiction is a very real problem, though probably less in browser games, and therefore we have a responsibility in it. It's not necessarily our fault but we have to stop it when we can.

I can't stress this enough. For me making games is not about money, it's about doing what I wanna do. It's about having fun and let others have fun. It's about taking the credit after hard work. That's not only what making games should be about but what life should be about! I hate you for taking advantage of other people.

[Copy112]

Well the main fact remains, iv read that Evony used to have stuff directly ripped from several large games like Age of Empires 2.

Source:
http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Hellforge/Evony-Plagiarism-Spot-The-Difference

Also, they apparently like to sue ppl for posting stuff on blogs.
http://www.bruceongames.com/2009/08/25/evony-want-to-sue-me-for-telling-the-truth/

Feels more like the developers want money, or actually the owner wants money, im sure that the developers isn't receiving much of it.

Check out this video to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFb9QKkNDU8

[Sagefire135]

If i can, why not? If I own a large popular game and my members want to use real money to buy stuff, it only makes sense to allow it since both parties are benefiting. My primary concern would be to keep the game active and fun, but passing up an opportunity to make money for all your hard work is just silly.

Alone spending money to advance in a game i have no problem with, even if there was a $10,000 option. My problem with spending real money in a game is that the person spending $100 is going to have a significant advantage over someone who doesnt spend any. and while that makes the game more interesting and fun for the one who bought, it makes players who dont spend money a little bit upset. I have never spend money on a game before, and seeing someone go from "just started", passing me up, and becoming the best without much effort REALLY makes me mad.

Nobody would argue that a $2 fee for a few extra perks is bad. $5 for more perks seems fair enough. $10 premium membership isnt the end of the world. $20 for something to help you in the game is starting to get a little uncomfortable for me, but nobody says i have to spend that money. To person X, spending $50 would be perfectly reasonable; they might not have a problem until the price reaches $100. Still person Y might be totally fine spending $500. If person Y spends $500 and only has $550 to his name, thats not my fault. Sure i feel sorry for them but what can i do, they would just as quickly spend $5 100 times if they wanted. Its up to the owner to draw the line somewhere reasonable and put in limits to keep the game fair, but its not the owners job to be every members financial advisor.

That all being said shame on them for only caring about money, even though they have every right to do so.....

[Xavier]

Well said, I'm on the same boat.

[Chris]

For me making games is not about money, it's about doing what I wanna do. It's about having fun and let others have fun.

Today I was working 12 hours. Except for Sundays (yep, 6 days work week) and official holidays I take 10 free days a year.
OK, now we can continue talking about moral aspects of taking money for providing games

[bbgames]

I once talked to someone who ran a fairly popular Mafia game, and used a system like this to turn a profit. When I asked him about how the dollars spent per player broke down, he said that something like 95% of players didn't spend any money at all, and were content with the free version. Within the 5% that spent anything, most would spend $5 or $10, and no more - but out of his entire userbase, there were about a dozen "whales"(as he called them), who would spend thousands of dollars a month just to get ahead.

If I recall correctly, he even mentioned getting to know some of his whales personally - when they're giving you that much money, why not? None of them were addicted, none of them had problems - they just liked his game, and liked it enough to put (I assume most of) their disposable income towards getting ahead in it.

Have I seen a game that I enjoy enough to put thousands of dollars into yet? No - but that doesn't mean I haven't contributed $50 to a game here, and $50 to another game there. It's all just a matter of what you can afford, and what you're willing to spend. If someone likes Evony enough to put their money towards that, then that's their call - and I don't think we should be complaining that users are willing to put money towards games they enjoy(instead, we should probably spend that time working on our own games).

[codestryke]

I once talked to someone who ran a fairly popular Mafia game, and used a system like this to turn a profit. When I asked him about how the dollars spent per player broke down, he said that something like 95% of players didn't spend any money at all, and were content with the free version. Within the 5% that spent anything, most would spend $5 or $10, and no more - but out of his entire userbase, there were about a dozen "whales"(as he called them), who would spend thousands of dollars a month just to get ahead.

If I recall correctly, he even mentioned getting to know some of his whales personally - when they're giving you that much money, why not? None of them were addicted, none of them had problems - they just liked his game, and liked it enough to put (I assume most of) their disposable income towards getting ahead in it.

Was this me, I remember talking to you about this kind of stuff a while back. If not then we had the same thing (yes we called them "whales"). A number of players were dumping $1,000 or more into the game per month. We started with a $5 option they wanted more, we added $10 they wanted more so we added the $20 and believe it or not they still wanted more so we finally added the $100. Some called us nuts for adding it, number days later $100 bought and another then another and it just went nuts after that. If Evony has a $3000 option they are either doing it as a joke or someone requested it and used it!

Seems we have a divide some people say thats crazy and irresponsible and others here are like "hell ya!". To me this breaks down into two camps here those that code bbgames for a hobby and those that code bbgames for a living or secondary income (a business). I fall in between somewhere, I love to code ideas just to say I did it and then possibly make that into a game. If I can turn a buck with the game I will but I will only go so far at what I will allow people to buy. If I didn't have a morals (ok I don't by Nyx keeps me in line) then I would honestly make a game that whomever buys the most wins LOL.

Chris and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of things but I know where he is coming from. It's one thing to say spending that type of thing is immoral, irresponsible or addictive. Say that when it's your living and your coding, marketing, admining and everything else it takes to run a game 24/7. If Chris hooks a couple whales and can stop to take a breath once in a while I say "hell ya good for him". And really when does it become our moral responsibility of what people can spend and at what point does it stop. Should we then ask what age they are and if they are between 11-18, from the US they should only be allowed to play for 30 minutes per day because the kids in the US now are obese and they need to go out and play instead of sit and play games? I know for myself I should never be a moral compass for ANYONE!

Evony is only the start, ok they are not the start, but this is the things to come and they will get worse. Browser games are getting more and more sophisticated, HTML5 (canvas), AJAX, Flash, Air, Siverlight I mean what we are creating now is going to be primitive in less then two years. Facebook, MySpace and the other social networks now getting people to play browser games and spending money on them as well is creating a whole generation of potential clients. When the technology gets to this point along and with the saturation of clientele you'll have to more of a business mindset or it'll just be you and a couple friends playing a web game you made for fun.

[Chris]

If I didn't have a morals (ok I don't by Nyx keeps me in line)

LOL


One day I was listening to school kids talking about BBG addiction. They were pointing out how much money other kids spend on these. Finally, one of them said "Yeah, think how much vodka you could buy with these money" all of them nodded and they ended the conversation immediately.
That day all my moral doubts about taking money for BBG ended.

[saljutin]

my moral about money in BBG's stopped when I have seen pictures and videos of some kids/teenagers making some sort of "real example of some BBG". Not to mention they live in villa and they have golf court in their backyard.... so that time I figured out that some people have too much money and that they can get 1000$ from their dad/mom anytime just to stop harassing them...

[Xavier]

I'm with codestryke on this. But...

Evony is only the start, ok they are not the start, but this is the things to come and they will get worse. Browser games are getting more and more sophisticated, HTML5 (canvas), AJAX, Flash, Air, Siverlight I mean what we are creating now is going to be primitive in less then two years. Facebook, MySpace and the other social networks now getting people to play browser games and spending money on them as well is creating a whole generation of potential clients. When the technology gets to this point along and with the saturation of clientele you'll have to more of a business mindset or it'll just be you and a couple friends playing a web game you made for fun.

Bear in mind that we now have Call of Duty MW2 which looks and feels crazy. Same goes to the newest
racing games, almost real. Yet MUDs are still popular and tons of people play them. You get my point...