MMORPG PBBG (outline)

[raines80]

I have created a lot of art work for the game already.  I have created all the character sketches and much of the background art work.....

I have taken a step back from the art portion of the game to begin to develop the actuall mechanics for it. Currently I am creating an outline of the game. I am in the middle of working on class discreptions. This outline is mostly for me and for those that I plan on recruiting once the outline and art work are finished.

I would like you guys to take a look at what I have so far before I continue. I would like your thoughts on any of the things I have covered so far in the outline.

Thank you all for the input.


Here is the outline.......






Game Thoughts and Notes



Races:

    Human, Elf, Dark Elf, Half Elf, Dwarf, Halfling,




Classes: 


                 LVL 1-5: Youth

                 LVL 5-10: Citizen

                 LVL 10-25: Fighter, Warrior, Thief, Priest, Monk, Magician, Woodsman

                 LVL 25-100: (fighter classes) Black Knight, White Knight, Grey Knight / (warrior classes) Barbarian, War Lord, Conqueror /  (thief classes) Master Thief, Assassin, Fighter Thief /( priest classes) Priest of Ishop, Priest of Dragmoore, Priest of Yolyth / (monk classes) Monk of  Earth, Monk of Water, Monk of Fire / (magician classes) Illusionist, Mentalist, Scholar / (woodsman classes) Master Hunter, Druid, Scout.


LVL 100+:-------------- Gods -------------- (indecided on this section)





Classes Explained:

      
Level 1-10 classes:

In the early stages of the game the player will be a youth. They will be 13 years of age and their goal is to learn their current town and become familiar with the game features.
 Once they have reached level 5 they will be 16 years of age and they will begin to receive quests from guild masters. At this point they are now citizens of their town and their actions will have consequences and rewards.
At level 10 the players will be 18 years of age and will be asked to choose a path to follow. The in game screen will show their options (Fighter, Warrior, Thief, Priest, Monk, Magician, Woodsman). Beside each class will be a compatibility bar. During their trails as a youth and citizen the game will have been recording their choices. It will weigh in how many times they have chosen to fight, run away, talk their way out of things, which guilds they have helped most often, their current standing in town, and much, much more. They can choose any class they would like to play, but choosing a class with a low compatibility rating will be harder to level in. It will cost them more experience points to move forward in the game.



Level 10-25 classes:

    Fighter: Fighters pick from two guilds. The first is the Soldiery Guild. The Soldiery Guild is a training ground for anyone who enjoys a good fair fight. They train players on melee and ranged combat. They prefer sword play and bow work to that of axes and daggers. While employed by the Soldiery Guild and player can expect to be sent on quests like; saving a noble’s daughter from a band of goblins, escorting dignitaries to distant out posts, controlling town mobs, being dispatched to defense towers, etc…
   Their second guild is the Mercenary Guild. The Mercenary Guild is for those fighters who are looking for quick fortune and don’t mind who they have to dispatch to get to it. The Mercenary guild trains it’s fighters in dirty combat. They like to use short swords (a bit easier to hide) and bolts. They are not looking for a fair fight… they are just looking for a fair price.  Players can expect to be sent on quests like; looting a caravan of a rival town, raiding rival villages, saving a noble’s daughter (if the price is right), etc…..



    Warrior: The War Guild is the only choice for warriors. The War Guild is a place for anyone who thirsts battle. They are not looking for a fight…. They are looking for a true test of power. The Warrior Guild trains players in the use of massive damage weapons. Defense is not one of their concerns. Warriors can expect to be sent on quests such as; death marches (the marching continues from battle to battle until at least one of the warrior die), attacking a large group of soldiers and seeing how many you can take down, leading the front lines of a battle field, etc…..




     Thief: Thieves have 3 options when it comes to guilds. Their first option is the Shadow Guild. The Shadow Guild is the place for those who are not looking for confrontation. Anyone who would rather hide in the shadows and pick a few pockets is welcome. They train players on the use of poisoned daggers and darts. As a member of the Shadow Guild you can expect to be sent on quests such as; (will finish creating later)

         



Attributes:      Strength, Intelligence, Dexterity, Charisma, Constitution, Wisdom,   
                      Perception, Willpower.




Attribute Details:


    Strength aka Body, Might, Brawn, ...
A measure of how physically strong a character is. Strength often controls the maximum weight the character can carry, melee attack and/or damage, and sometimes hit points.

      Constitution aka Stamina, Endurance, Vitality, ...
A measure of how resilient a character is. Constitution often influences hit points, resistances for special types of damage (poisons, illness, heat etc.) and fatigue.

     Dexterity aka Agility, Reflexes, Speed, ...
A measure of how agile a character is. Dexterity controls attack and movement speed and accuracy, as well as the difficulty of an opponent's attack.

     Intelligence aka Intellect, Mind, Brains, Knowledge, ...
A measure of a character's problem-solving ability. Intelligence often controls a character's ability to comprehend foreign languages and their skill in magic. 

     Charisma aka Presence, Charm, Social, ...
A measure of a character's social skills, and sometimes their physical appearance. Charisma generally influences prices while trading, and NPC reactions.

     Wisdom aka Spirit, Psyche, Sense, ...
A measure of a character's common sense and/or spirituality. Wisdom often controls a character's ability to cast certain spells, communicate to mystical entities, or hear something in the distance.

    Willpower aka Sanity, Personality, Ego, ...
A measure of the character's mental resistance (against pain, fear etc.) when falling victim to mind-altering, torture, or insanity.

     Perception aka Alertness, Awareness, Cautiousness, ...
A measure of a character's openness to their surroundings. Perception controls the chance to detect vital clues, traps, or hiding enemies, and might influence combat sequence, or the accuracy of ranged attacks.

[raines80]

The classes may look a bit strange to some..... to give you guys an idea on the time line involved in these classes I will put it like this.

Levels 1-5 are there for the player to understand the basics of gameplay and for them to be able to interact with the world around them without any ill effect to their character. Lvls 1-5 should take the average player around 2 hours to get through.

Levels 5-10 are meant to show the player the consequences their actions can bring. It is also their to show them the rewards they can recieve as well. At this point the player should be familiar with most of the game play and they should be thinking about in what direction they would like the head in the game. These levels should be another 3 hours in game play. So a good player could make to the level of choosing (lvl 10) in one setting... most will take a couple of days to make it this far though...

Levels 10-25 are what I like to think of as grinding levels.... of course people will not be forced to work on thier abilities and attributes this entire time... they will be recieving numerous quests that will keep gameplay interesting. The player's main goal here should be preparing their character for thier next evolution. This section of levels should take the player 48 total hours of actuall game play to complete (this time frame may be changed later).

Levels 25-100 is where most of the players will be at..... it is the most time consuming and the most intrecate part of the game. This is the phase where a player tries to make a name for him/her self in the game. They can buy land... take land.... make kingdoms... destroy kingdoms... whatever they want to do at this point. Later I will be developing a large war system. It will be much like RF online, but with less players involved.

[JGadrow]

Ok, this is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth.

This project is probably WAY too large in scope. Seeing as how this is your first try at games, you should scale it back so that you can determine if the core mechanic of the game is even "fun" for others.

Get the game working on paper before worrying about programming it. Play through levels 1 - 10 (your 'tutorial' levels) with various playtest groups and see how they react to the game.

Also, people tend to have little patience with this medium. I would suggest allowing the player to be able to level all the way to level 10 (completing all of their 'basic training') in an hour or less. If it's going to take them 5 hours to get to the 'core' gameplay, you're going to lose a lot of players due to boredom.

I think that should give you an adequate starting point for commentary.

** Edit: corrected placement of closing parenthesis.

[Chris]

21 classes? If you spend 1 month to make, finetune and balance 1 class it will take you almost 2 years. Not to mention the rest of the game. I really recommend preparing a rough outline of a  schedule first.

[raines80]

I agree with your scope issue. I had planned on just creating the level 1-5 portion first. The outline is going to be for the overall game. I know it is a lot and by no means do I think I am currently at a place where I can develop something of this magnitude, but I want to get what I believe to be a great game down on paper first.

I know where you are comming from in the effect that it will take a player 5 hours of gameplay to reach the level of class choosing, but that is the direction I want to head. I am a firm believer that games are lacking in any emotion between the player and the character they developed. Part of the reason I believe is that in the current games available there is no work involved to level your characters and the rewards you recieve are just another pat on the back. I believe if I can make it harder for people to get thier characters off the ground then those players who do stay will love thier characters and will continue playing because of this. I want thier character to seem like an old friend when they log in. I am not saying it will be impossible to get your character to level 10, but it is going to be work.

Another reason for the time frames is that eventually I want this game to be beyond envolved. I want the players' actions to directly reflect thier character's current status. Durring levels 1-5 it is a gimme... if you beat up an old lady in the streat the town will chalk it up to a kid being a kid, but once you reach level 6 it changes a bit and I want enough data for the game to truelly be able to tell the personality of the player. I want this character to have a past before it picks a guild.

Online games seem desperate to make sure kids don't get bored. Where on the other hand.. game consoles have been making games for years that it takes forever to beat them... look at the popularity of Final Fantasy. Those games were no push overs and your character was whimpy nothing for most of the game in the early versions.  When you read a book or watch a movie... the best ones are the ones that take you along with the characters on thier ride from nothing to something.

I guess where I am getting at is this.... there have been many times in our culture that someone goes against the grain and completely throws the "norm" out the window. 999,999 out of 1,000,000 these people fail absolutely. Then there is that 1 person... the one that changes everything we thought we knew and helps make his little area of influence a little better...  I am pretty sure I am apart of the 999,999 who have failed and are going to fail, but I don't mind trying to be that one. If this game I am creating fails..... then I will create another game experience and another and another until I am statisfied that I am just strange dude with strange ideas..  

[raines80]

I agree with you as well Chris. I do need a solid schedule before I begin the actual creating of the game. I plan on getting it all on paper first. I am going make sure my outline makes sense before I start to delve into creating a schedule of events.

Keep in mind as well... I don't plan on doing this alone. I have a few buddies who are a lot better at programming then I am. My main concern is all the art work that will be involved.... I need to find someone that can follow my lead and copy my style as close as possible.

I have considered creating my own game creator.... this may cut back on my time line.... the scary part is the creation of the game creator would take me a year.... so either way it is gonna take around 2 years  xD

[raines80]

And I wanted you both to know that I value your opinions. I know I must look like a defending what I wrote to the last breath, but not really.. I am deffending the idea of it (if that makes any sense).

I understand that the scope of this project is going to be crazy big and that I alone won't and can't accomplish it.

I wanted to thank you guys again for your opinions and your thoughts.

[JGadrow]

I agree, the TRULY great are those that go against expectation. However, for your first offering, you should probably go with something a little more "tried and true" or at least get it working in paper-format (before the expense of having it developed) and see if everyone agrees that the game is "fun" even though it takes 5 hours to get to level 10.

As someone who enjoys the Final Fantasy series, I can say that I stick through a FF game for the storyline which (with the exception of their early titles) is pretty epic in scope.

Also, I would avoid tacking on 'game experiences' like you said you're going to do. I would plan the whole thing out on paper first, iterate through it, and then build it piece-by-piece. Rather than build the level 1-5 experience, iterate, code and move on. You need to have a playable prototype of your 'core' experience at the least. Which you identified as being level 10+.

[raines80]

Also, I would avoid tacking on 'game experiences' like you said you're going to do. I would plan the whole thing out on paper first, iterate through it, and then build it piece-by-piece. Rather than build the level 1-5 experience, iterate, code and move on. You need to have a playable prototype of your 'core' experience at the least. Which you identified as being level 10+.

You are probably right... I guess I am a bit over zelous in my endevour. I still plan on finishing the outline on how I want the game to be in the end. I have this large idea in my head and if doesn't go on paper I am affriad my head may explode and I am not sure my insurance covers that.

A working demo should be my first priority after the idea hits paper. I think, considering your advice, I am going to create it with only the 7 classes to begin with. I will develop a demo that will take about 2 hours to complete. It will go through levels 1-15 so they can see most of the aspects of the game that will either grip a player or lose them. After I have finished the outline for what I would "like" the game to be I will begin the outline for the demo and see where it will take me from there.

Edited:

Do you think it would be a good idea to go from levels 1-15 or should I set it up to level 20 and for the purpose of the demo only let that be the stage in which they get to choose thier new class, but end it at that point to leave them wanting more??  not sure if that is a good idea or not...

I know it sounds niave and a bit head strong, but I really want the player to experience feeling of being nothing in a game. That is what the levels 1-5 are designed to do. They are there to teach them game play while making them feel a bit whimpy. In the demo I don't think I will be able to convey this as much as I will in the actuall game, but atleast they will catch a glimpse of it. 


edited level progresion comments.

[Nox]

I think it depends on what you're able to create in a reasonable timeframe.

I like what you wrote so far, I really like the developement part

What I miss here is some world specifics and mechanics to go with it.
I have mostly the same issue in a game design - that many things just seem too generic as far as fantasy style goes.

It's not utterly necessary but I think it would be very good if the world you're gonna set your game in would have some specialities,
some unique atmosphere and feel and have tha game and it's mechanics reflect on that.

Some examples invoking obvious ideas might be probably either character-wise vampires (there are really plenty of things and possible mechanisms to go with them
and have many specifics accredited to them from the ancient times till nowadays and you might as well change it a bit (silver, tranformations,
blood, daylight, infecting etc.)...I know they're not going to be center of your game, just giving examples)
or vampiresXwerewolves (I do not mean the trash game bitefight) or environment-wise - a postapocalyptic or ....hm, don't know what else now...and that's the thing
Edit it doesn't have to be as specific as described above, doesn't have to be a whole world different,
like you can have what you described but add some specifics to it (like...witcher?)

Especially since there's a lot of competition I think it is vital for your game to be memorable and these special thinks would imho help it a lot

[lindhsky]

Sounds like a nice and well-planned game and something I would definatily like to play. If you make it roleplaying friendly as well then I am sure a lot of old MUDers would join.

I myself did the same as you, wrote it down on paper and had all the calculations and so on that I needed for it to work before I began my programming. It was/is also my first project and took my ideas here and got the same advice, to cut some of the features. I can say I didn't want that, but noticed early on that it was the way to go. Still I had all features in mind when I started to program (balance, DB structure and so on) and to be honest although I didn't have all that I first wanted when I let my friends alpha-test my game recently, then I noticed that I had a lot of other features instead. I also added a lot of stuff during the testing-period and not just layout things that the friends suggested.

So I guess what I want to say is that I have been in the same situation as you and I am getting closer and closer to open beta in my game. I did listen to the advices over here and that helped a lot because before I would considered it a failure if I didn't add everything that I had on paper first. Now I have a game that my friends liked a lot and that is fully playable and still I have a lot of things that I decided to cut. They'll be added in the future though, that's for sure.

Good luck!

[raines80]

Everyone has given me some really good advice. I do plan on adding some things to the game that will separate it from being just a D&D game.

I plan to make sure that RPG is a huge focus in the game. IMO it is critical that person to person interaction exists in MMOs.  The way I plan to accomplish this is to make sure people HAVE to get together and do quests in order to advance in level. Eventually I would like to take some of the best players have them be the glue for the groups. Set certain time frames for them to logon and send out mass messages about quests and lead the groups.

The workable beta is going to be a task all by it's self....... creating the actual game I have in my head is going to be well beyond a task. I plan on creating the beta with the core idea of a character driven MMORPG in mind. The quests will be there, the fighting will be there, but I want to make sure the player becomes attached to the character they have created. This is going to be a hard task to accomplish, but if I can make that happen then the rest will be butter.

[jannesiera]

I'm going to compose a short summary of notes and thoughts I had while reading through this (I would have jumped in the conversation  earlier if I hadn't been away for the weekend).

game mechanics? interface etc?!

To begin with: it's a hugely incomplete design document. You called this an 'outline', but you're giving almost the opposite. It is a very detailed description of content, that's it. The interesting part is how the game works, short description of interface, what's unique, etc.

You don't even have to explain these in detail. A simple yet effective manner of explaining your design is saying: "My game looks like a combination of game "A" and game "B", but with additional features "x", "y" and "z".

I really missed this explanation. By the description of your content I can guess your going for a simple text-based rpg, still I missed explanation of game mechanics. Also more info about the game interface, unique features and additional notes specific to your design would be good.

It might be handy if you look up something about game design documents (but don't waste your time if you're not convinced it's a good idea).

to much content

Like noted before you have too much content. I was really surprised you had so much classes, why? In my humble opinion every little bit of the game should add something extra. Every class, for example, should provide a whole new playing experience. Following your clues I guess the main difference will be other stats bonuses for each class, along with some other little things.

In any case the fact you have so much classes proves that it's not based on unique playing experience.

And like said before you should start of with a prototype, something I experienced with my first game too (you can read everything about the development here: http://ceastertrade.blogspot.com/). And even cut more in content to start off with (I suggest 3 classes, instead of 7). You can add more content at any time!

Innovative?

I guess where I am getting at is this.... there have been many times in our culture that someone goes against the grain and completely throws the "norm" out the window. 999,999 out of 1,000,000 these people fail absolutely. Then there is that 1 person... the one that changes everything we thought we knew and helps make his little area of influence a little better...  I am pretty sure I am apart of the 999,999 who have failed and are going to fail, but I don't mind trying to be that one. If this game I am creating fails..... then I will create another game experience and another and another until I am statisfied that I am just strange dude with strange ideas..

I completely back you up at this. The beautiful in our hobby is that we can try something ground-breaking without any consequences. If we fail we move on to the next!

The only problem I have is that your game (or at least, what I read about it 'till now) isn't innovative at all. It's just another rpg with even more classes where it takes annoyingly long to get to the core gameplay.

Human, Elf, Dark Elf, Half Elf, Dwarf, Halfling

... the stats, leveling system, etc.

The heaps of clichés don't help either.

That counts for me at least. I can imagine (and some folks already posted this before me) that some people really like the sort of game your making. You have a good, proven, genre with a huge player base. But how are you going to be different? And I mean really innovative, not just some other settings.

---

Sorry, if this all sounds harsh, I just want to clearly bring over the message. I really believe there is potential here, and I like how you take your time planning it. Again, just want to help, don't want to demoralize you or anything . And keep us up to date about the development!

[raines80]

The only thing that is harsh is your obvious lack of schooling when it comes to web design. You do not include game mechanics in your outline. Your outline is made to insure that as you are creating your mechanics you have something to refer back to so you know you are on the right path. This is game design 101. I am putting the ideas on paper.... you may be a robot and set to creating a combat system before you have come up with how you want it ran.

I appreciate comments, but to call my classes cliche is ironic if you ask me. I can come up some crap like Whoppergangers that look like lizard bunnies, but that isn't what I am going for. This game is not going to be for everyone... obviously it isn't for you. That is fine, but you are wayyyyyy off base calling this cliche.

I also do not like the fact that you said it isn't innovative and you obviously missed the part about character growth. The soul of this game is to make sure the player actually cares about thier character... not about their stats, not about their overall status in the community, not about their stupid dragon sword... I want them to care about the character. I want them to think before they risk the life the of their character. That is the point of the long leveling at the start. This game isn't about levels. This game is about taking game play to the next level. If I wanted a hack and slash level jumper then I would play WoW... I am not playing WoW because I think it is a worthless waste of talent that could actually be used to better the gaming community instead of charging for lack of imagination.

Lastly... I have read many of your posts and find them all to be aggressive and rude. I would appreciate you not giving me any advice. From what I have read of what you have written on here I find your ideas lacking in any inspiration and your guidance less helpful and more arrogant.

[Scion]

really?

first we find out jannesiera 'ISNT A GIRL', and now all our delusions about him being a helpfull and friendly member of the community are being crushed!

oh woes me.

[JGadrow]

first we find out jannesiera 'ISNT A GIRL'...

Was I the only one who noticed that it was a germanic name? lol

And, as a personal "taste" commentary on your last post, raines80, I would suggest that you send something like that through a personal message first. It's just a much more polite manner of handling it rather than blasting him for all of the community to see. There may have been reasons why he wrote what he did and perhaps his intentions didn't exactly come through in what he wrote.

Never forget that not everyone here is a native english-speaker so sometimes the "tone" that something is written with is not always indiciative of the thoughts of the individual. It sometimes helps to clarify what they really meant in their comment which, by nature, also helps the individual gain a better understanding of the english language. It's win/win.

[jannesiera]

Raines80, I'm sorry you don't agree with me. As I said I really din't want to be offensive, or even aggressive.

I must honestly say I had no idea that I sound rude / aggressive in my posts. If that's the case then thanks you for letting me know that . Though I'll try to be careful in future posts, I don't know why I sound aggressive, so I don't really know how to change that.

From what I have read of what you have written on here I find your ideas lacking in any inspiration and your guidance less helpful and more arrogant.

I'm kinda sad you said this, because that wasn't what I was going for AT ALL. I try to be helpful and I hope I can do something to help others. You kinda destroyed my purpose of being here  . Also, I must say I'm really sad / shocked about what you said. I'm really doing my best to be(come) a great person, but you totally ... I don't know how I could say it. Let's just say it makes me kinda depressed  . I'm not a crybaby, but I'm pretty shocked. (omg, it's hard to express my emotions by only using text :S)

Anyway, good luck with the development of your game. I hope you will succeed in your attempt to create a special game. I won't give you any comments any more .

[saljutin]

raines80 ... you won't get far with such relationship to critics
if you cannot stand some criticism and negative feedback ... i think every game developer should listen to all ideas and critics and the think about it without applying his/her feelings and emotions - it is the only way he/she can actually hear about how other people think that game is

[shoespeak]

Nothing in the document really shows how you are going to get the player to care about the character.You say in a post that you don't want them to be concerned about getting this sword or earning this money..but what else is there to keep track of a players progress?...in my experience people care more about the character the more time they put into leveling stats/collecting money, etc. I mean yeah its great to read about your different classes and how much time players should spend in the level ranges...but without knowing the mechanics (eg, how the levels really affect what is going on with the character) it is pointless.

I think that there needs to be a post about the mechanics for some good feedback. Sure you have a nice list of stats...but how do players raise the stats? Do they get stats for clicking train links or for completing quests with other players? If everyone in the group is doing the same quest, won't everyone generally have the same stats?

I think this doc is a good example of WHAT, but I'm more interested in the HOW.