Discussion: what makes a game a good game?

[jannesiera]

What makes a game a good game? What do you guys think?

Things that pop in to my head right now:
- It should give players a new experience. That doesn't mean a game has to be totaly different, but suprise in a pleasant way.
- The game should be clear and easy to play, but with also enough depth. (the more depth, the more intresting, but every game aspect should stay clear)
- good graphics are necessary
- everything should be well balanced
- it should be accessible enough
- etc.

For example: I know a very good game, Miniconomy, with very nice gameplay, depth and very addictif. But it lacks on four other important areas.
1. It has terrible graphics/layout
2. You can only win if you have premium account. That is probably the worst thing.
3. It's developpers are dutch. There are three countries. 2 dutch and 1 english. But in the english country half of the people speaks dutch, so many new players who don't speak dutch don't understand anything.
4. It's VERY hard to understand everything at the beginning. It has a very steep learning curve.

Now I want to hear you're oppinion .

[Zeggy]

Theory of Games

I don't think good graphics are necessary to have a fun game. They can help make the site look much nicer and the experience more fulfilling, but if it's not done properly they can also get annoying.

It should be unique, ie. something different and also fun that makes you want to play that game rather than other ones.

I think the general idea to play should be very simple, but underneath are strategies that you will discover over time.

There should be many things to try out and play, but not so many that you don't know where to start. More stuff should be 'unlocked' as you play on, instead of having everything available to you.

[JGadrow]

It should give players a new experience.

Or, give an old experience with a new twist. Such as a sequel to or remake of a well-enjoyed game.

The game should be clear and easy to play, but with also enough depth.

Agree, if by 'clear' you mean you're not cluttering your interface. Players can digest even the most complex games if they don't feel bombarded by information but have a DEFINED manner in which to, unobtrusively, receive the information they need at any given time.

good graphics are necessary

I completely disagree. The game that I've been playing recently is Massive Arena Online, which is - surprisingly - fun and is nearly devoid of any and all graphics.

everything should be well balanced

Agreed, with the caveat that 'perfect' balance is nearly impossible to achieve. Unless you create a 'classic' style game such as Chess or Checkers

it should be accessible enough

This isn't really a hallmark of a great 'game' but of a 'proper' designer. Nearly anyone can make a site, however, it takes someone with a bit of talent to keep that site presentable and accessible to the majority of the population.

You can only win if you have premium account. That is probably the worst thing.

Can ONLY win if they have a premium account? Or are MORE LIKELY to win? Because, let's be honest, this always HAS to be the case if it's a "Premium" account, else what's the point of paying the premium?

I don't really have much to add except that it should be well DOCUMENTED! Documentation allows your players to answer their own questions with a bit of research and can even help ramp up their skill at the game.

[jannesiera]

I think the general idea to play should be very simple, but underneath are strategies that you will discover over time.

This ussualy makes good games, but it doesn't HAVE to be like this.

There should be many things to try out and play, but not so many that you don't know where to start. More stuff should be 'unlocked' as you play on, instead of having everything available to you.

I agree, but again, many times it isn't neccessary to 'lock' features to make sure players don't get lost.

It should give players a new experience.

Or, give an old experience with a new twist. Such as a sequel to or remake of a well-enjoyed game.

That's also kinda what I meant.  There has always to be something 'new' to discover (or rediscover).

good graphics are necessary

I completely disagree. The game that I've been playing recently is Massive Arena Online, which is - surprisingly - fun and is nearly devoid of any and all graphics.

I've been following the thread about MAO, and indeed, it sounds very intresting. But I took a look at the screenshots, and I think that with a really cool layout and some cool drawings for the items the game would be even nicer to play. You know what I mean? The graphics don't make the game, but they do improve the gaming experience.

You can only win if you have premium account. That is probably the worst thing.

Can ONLY win if they have a premium account? Or are MORE LIKELY to win? Because, let's be honest, this always HAS to be the case if it's a "Premium" account, else what's the point of paying the premium?

I don't really have much to add except that it should be well DOCUMENTED! Documentation allows your players to answer their own questions with a bit of research and can even help ramp up their skill at the game.

In this game, I define in the ending top 20 as 'winning'. (Consider that there aren't that many player is this game). I've been in the top 40 without a premium, that's doable. But EVERYONE in the top 20 has premium. It's really not balanced.
I understand that you are more likely to win with premium, but even that doesn't always have to be the case.

i really REALLY agree that a game should be wel documented.

[Chris]

I contest the question. It does not matter if the game is good or bad, no one cares. There are only two things that matters: to provide entertainment to players and to generate enough income for the game to survive. Everything else is irrelevant. If you make it by making a simple text based game with a great community features or by gfx heavy monster is not important at all. Making a good game is not the goal, it is merely the mean of achieving the goal. Many developers do not see this and fall into a pitfall of making a great game and achieve nothing in the end. Players do not want good games, they want to have fun And yes, there is a slight difference in these, once you gasp what the difference between a good game and fun game is, you are ready to provide entertainment to your players.


But to answer the question, a good game should (sorted by priority):
- be online most of the time
- do not have too many annoying bugs or broken interface or bad documentation or other things that prevent players from using the game in a reasonable way
- the gameplay should be relatively easy to understand by your target audience
- the gameplay should be deep enough OR the community be strong enough to make the old players stay

[jannesiera]

Making a good game is not the goal, it is merely the mean of achieving the goal.

May I note 2 things?
1. The titel of the thread is: "what makes a good game?", so even if it's not the goal, that's what we are having a discussion about.
2. The goal is only what the maker wants it to be. If you are making you're own game, you can dicide for yourself you want to make just a good and complete game and don't care what you're players want. If that is what you want to do, that is what you go for, that's you're goal.

But to answer the question, a good game should (sorted by priority):
- be online most of the time
- do not have too many annoying bugs or broken interface or bad documentation or other things that prevent players from using the game in a reasonable way
- the gameplay should be relatively easy to understand by your target audience
- the gameplay should be deep enough OR the community be strong enough to make the old players stay

Nothing I can say isn't true .

[lewt24]

great topic is really helping me thankyou

[luvva]

I'd go for flexibility in approaches too- the game needs to be balanced such that aggressive playing and defensive playing are possible. (otherwise you put off one or the other )

[Scion]

hmm....

Im actually kinda drawn to the a good game is a fun game definition....unfortunately there really is no recipe for making a fun game....or rather...just about every game will find some group that thinks its fun, but its quite ellusive to find one that appeals to a large audience over a long time.

If your in it for the money then you probably want a game that would be considered fun by as many people as possible....which means it may not be anything that you'd personally play....

Compare this to the hobby developer, ( Id define that as anyone who doenst make their living / or intend to make their living from their game developement ) who is almost certaily going to go into a genre that they themselves find fun, even if its not likely to have a wide appeal.

In these situations rather than define a list of 'must haves' or 'should dos' i think its better to have some 'avoid these' ie its better to have a guideline that says what things are generally best avoided ....this gives the designer more room or flexibility and doesnt stifle inovation...

having said that rules....well theyre made to be broken

[Hypemaster]

A good game is a game wich is fun to play and easy to understand. For me a good needs a good interface and some fun gameplay. Freedom is also importent for me, you should be able to do stuff like you want, i hate games where you can only choose an option what to do next (linear games).

Importent =
- fun
- interface
- freedom
and an easy to understand gamemanual

Graphics dont make games good, i have seen games with great graphics wich sucks (dont play those) or games with 'bad' graphics but fun to play. Gaming is about fun, not looks.
If you want nice graphics then go outside...

You also have unique game, a unique game is a game wich has some new gameplay elements never seen or just made better. It doesent make it a good game but also dont requered to have a good game.

[jannesiera]

An example of a game with awesome graphics is Ikariam, but it sooooo boring . But with good graphics I mean a nice clean layout etc. And still thinks that is neccicary to make a great game. It doesn't mean it isn't a great game without the graphics, but it's just greater. I don't like playing games with terrible graphics, I just don't even register.

Does some one has a game for me with great gameplay but bad / no graphics? I would like to try it out.

And also the story in the "Tygras" topic about players getting used to childisch graphics, that's kinda intresting  .

[codestryke]

Simple make the game engaging. Can be one of two ways to go about this...

Game play, players become engaged by the game and continue to play
Community, players become engaged by the community and continue to login to be part of that community.

You can't please everyone, you can't make one game all encompassing and have everyone play it (well unless your Blizzard LOL).

But really what makes a good game for me won't make a good game for say jannesiera.

Does some one has a game for me with great gameplay but bad / no graphics? I would like to try it out.

Sure and you played it, BoozeQuest... To me the game layout is horrible, graphics, eh.. But to me the game is engaging, something about it pulls me and makes me log in a couple times a day.


 

[jannesiera]

Does some one has a game for me with great gameplay but bad / no graphics? I would like to try it out.

Sure and you played it, BoozeQuest... To me the game layout is horrible, graphics, eh.. But to me the game is engaging, something about it pulls me and makes me log in a couple times a day.


 

Heck, you're totaly right .

[raestlyn]

Does some one has a game for me with great gameplay but bad / no graphics? I would like to try it out.

Try out Estiah. It has some background graphics but everything else besides a few symbols it has has no graphics. It has one of the greatest game play mechanics I have seen so far, and its quite fun to play, atleast to me. I have 5 characters near the "max" level now and it doesn't get boring at any point.

Game battles are javascript/css animations that you can skip if you don't feel like watching them.

If you try it out and need an advice just drop me a message in here and I'll gladly will help you out.

[goodie]

What makes a good game?

Imo a good game is one that has a few simple game play mechanics that interact in ways which produce a complex game.

Granted that's not as easy as it sounds sadly. :<

-Goodie

[Qwerty]

A good game to me is

- Easy to learn how to play
- Starts of easy, with a few guides on how to play here and there, but not everywhere
- A good storyline (the reason why your character exists)
- Not repeadative (I think I spelt that wrong)
- Variety of things to do