From the Trenches :: Issue #2

[codestryke]

Keep It Simple, Stupid

As programmers and designers we can do almost anything we want. We can have these grandiose ideas about our games and where we want to take them, we are bound by nothing but time and the current technology. This is both a blessing and a curse at the same time! This is were the KISS methodology comes into play KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID!

I always had this idea to code a full blown auction system into my game. I coded the PHP front-end and a massive backend to resolve the auctions using PERL. This feature alone took me a good month to code (I'm not all that strong in PERL). I released the auction system to the game, bugs upon bugs were found during the first couple runs which then took a good 3-4 days of no sleep correcting.

In the end once it was all done, bug free and in the game, guess what? No one used it  Over a months worth of work, countless hours debugging for what ended up being a dud. Instead of maybe coding a smaller version of the auction system to see how it would play out I made it huge and all encompassing which is what took the most time.

The lesson learned here is code it small, keep it simple, release it into the game and see if it works out both from a player acceptance view and from game balance view. Then, and only then, start releasing upgrades to the feature. This will end up saving you HOURS of your precious time Not including getting the player suggestions you will get from the simple idea that you may have not thought of

Happy Holidays!

[toto]

Thanks for the article, codestryke, it was definitely useful.
I agree with what you said last - player suggestions are extremely important.

[dvd871]

The odd thing is I was just coding an auction addon to one of my games when I read this.  I do agree with Codestryke though.  Keep it simple and get a basic working model to start with.  Then let the players decide what needs to be tweaked or added.  Nice article! 

Since the auction thing was mentioned maybe some of you can help me with something.

The issue we are having is that in our game it requires gold and food to maintain your troops.  Currently we have a public market in the game where players can put up troops and grains for sale and other players can buy them as they need.  When you put up troops and grains for sale in the public market, you no longer are required to pay for the maintenance of those items.  Because of this players are putting items on the public market at max prices and using it as a place to store troops and grains until they are needed.  Doing this will save them literally millions of gold as they run turns, but it makes the public market useless for the players that are trying to use it in the manner it was meant to be used.

[Zeggy]

Maybe you could put up a tax for putting stuff on the market?
Or, they can't take it out again. If it's not sold, the 'government' takes it. (Which means it gets deleted )
Or the 'government' buys it at a set, low price.

[coreymanshack]

Maybe you could put up a tax for putting stuff on the market?
Or, they can't take it out again. If it's not sold, the 'government' takes it. (Which means it gets deleted )
Or the 'government' buys it at a set, low price.

Or if it isn't sold you can just give them back the item.

[codestryke]

The odd thing is I was just coding an auction addon to one of my games when I read this.  I do agree with Codestryke though.  Keep it simple and get a basic working model to start with.  Then let the players decide what needs to be tweaked or added.  Nice article! 

Since the auction thing was mentioned maybe some of you can help me with something.

The issue we are having is that in our game it requires gold and food to maintain your troops.  Currently we have a public market in the game where players can put up troops and grains for sale and other players can buy them as they need.  When you put up troops and grains for sale in the public market, you no longer are required to pay for the maintenance of those items.  Because of this players are putting items on the public market at max prices and using it as a place to store troops and grains until they are needed.  Doing this will save them literally millions of gold as they run turns, but it makes the public market useless for the players that are trying to use it in the manner it was meant to be used.

I had the same things going on in my game with a market.. To counter those actions the market only lists the item for 24 hours, if it's not sold by then then it gets sent back to the seller. It also charge a 2% fee on the asking price, which is not uncommon for any place that does 3rd party selling Those two additions helped stop the "hiding" of assets on the market, not 100% but a good 95% which I could live with

[coreymanshack]

The odd thing is I was just coding an auction addon to one of my games when I read this.  I do agree with Codestryke though.  Keep it simple and get a basic working model to start with.  Then let the players decide what needs to be tweaked or added.  Nice article! 

Since the auction thing was mentioned maybe some of you can help me with something.

The issue we are having is that in our game it requires gold and food to maintain your troops.  Currently we have a public market in the game where players can put up troops and grains for sale and other players can buy them as they need.  When you put up troops and grains for sale in the public market, you no longer are required to pay for the maintenance of those items.  Because of this players are putting items on the public market at max prices and using it as a place to store troops and grains until they are needed.  Doing this will save them literally millions of gold as they run turns, but it makes the public market useless for the players that are trying to use it in the manner it was meant to be used.

I had the same things going on in my game with a market.. To counter those actions the market only lists the item for 24 hours, if it's not sold by then then it gets sent back to the seller. It also charge a 2% fee on the asking price, which is not uncommon for any place that does 3rd party selling Those two additions helped stop the "hiding" of assets on the market, not 100% but a good 95% which I could live with

I was wondering what game this is?

[codestryke]

www.bordellobattles.com

Cypher has a market also but because of the way the attack system works people don't feel the need or want to "hide" items on the market to prevent from getting attacked.

[coreymanshack]

www.bordellobattles.com

Cypher has a market also but because of the way the attack system works people don't feel the need or want to "hide" items on the market to prevent from getting attacked.

I want to sign up at cypher, could I get in?

[Zeggy]

http://cypher.extremecast.com/ is the URL to cypher

[coreymanshack]

I know the url, but it says that it is not accepting memers right now, and I want to be a member.

[Zeggy]

Oh, alright. Never mind then

[codestryke]

I know the url, but it says that it is not accepting memers right now, and I want to be a member.

Beta Round #15 has started so you can signup and start playing now

We were down longer then normal due to all the changes I needed to code.

[npshmear]

I like to get ideas, as a beginner, from all the games that are out there.  Never stealing anything, though coding my own so that it may do similar functions or look similar.

is that a bad thing?

[Zeggy]

Nah, you'd have to be a genius to create something totally unique, ebcause there's also somebody who has done it before you
Everybody takes ideas from other games, you just need to give your game its own style so it won't seem like a rip-off

[npshmear]

That's what I'm hoping for.  Here's the honest to jesus truth (Jesus hah).  I had this idea in my head from watching this movie.  It came to me like a calling haha.  And I was completely obsessed with the thought of creating a game with this theme.  Then I started looking through the games that I've played, and saw links that post to other games by the same people, and I see that its been done before, though in a more complex mannor. 

So I hope to give a new aspect to the theme, and see if my version can win over players...  Though it is my first game EVER! 

Man, This forum is really good for Beginners

NPS

[Zeggy]

Just improve where the others have failed
Sometimes keeping the whole game simple to play and simple to code is the way to go (Like codestryke said in this topic )

[Broda]

Another good article

A couple of the PBBGs I'm playing right now have an Item Market and an Auction House. No one ever uses the Auction House because of the Item Market. I think the best solution to this is to dump the Item Market and build in a Buy It Now price on the Auction House (seller option). Also, to combat the "post items for max to store for free" problem you definitely need to have a time limit. World of Warcraft's Auction House works perfectly. If you want to list it for the max time (24 hours) it costs you more up front cash and you can specify a buy out price if you want to.