Getting started

[zolacat999]

Hi,

Well I have always been interested in creating games and have had a few attempts jumping in at the deep end both times i drowned  so Now I realized it is best to start from scratch and learn it all for myself. The tutorials are good but I think im missing something, for example on the first tutorial on databases it doesn't give any detail about what program you are using for this data base, it just starts that confused me alittle.

Where should I start? im sure this question has been asked 1,000,001 times, but I now think I have found the right site to make a firm start     

[JGadrow]

The typical setup used by most board members are:
PHP - programming language
MySQL - database
Apache - web server

However, there are a myriad of options to choose from. Pick the setup that seems to suit you the best. Because you're new, you're in a perfect position to pick whichever components you would like.

[Sagefire135]

When i first started toying around with sql, i used WAMP (Windows Apache MySQL PHP). You can download the whole pack and install them all at once, which makes things easier. http://www.wampserver.com/en/download.php

There are other options too, that lots of other people mention. But i dont remember the names and i never used them, so i cant say much else.

[dbest]

XAMPP http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html. I used the lite version for testing on my local machine.

Another option is to use Ruby on Rails for creating your game. Although not in English, this blog post lists the development stack for RoR development: http://lobotuerto.com/blog/2009/11/17/programando-un-pbbg-en-ruby-rails/
Also another post with setup instructions: http://www.galaxy-news.net/content/230_pimp_my_rails.html

[zolacat999]

Well I have been doing a bit of looking around and my initial impression is that PHP/MYSQL seems the best language because it seems to be more universal and could be a more useful language to learn 

[jannesiera]

Well I have been doing a bit of looking around and my initial impression is that PHP/MYSQL seems the best language because it seems to be more universal and could be a more useful language to learn 

PHP/Mysql is an excellent choice, but you should check out Python too. Python is a lot like php, but in general a little bit more powerful, that is what I heard of it at least.

There are a lot of comparing articles, some in favour of php and some in favour of Python. To me it seems that Python is slightly better as a language but the strong points of php are good documentation and a huge community. Many big applications are using php right now or support php (Wordpress, for example). That seems pretty important to me if you're a beginner and want to make something like a browser based game (PBBG).

On the other hand Python is gaining popularity and the owner of bbrowsergames is using Python, so perhaps he even wants to help you get started. Also I downloaded a free 3D modelling/animation program yesterday (never done 3D modelling before) named Blender and guess what? It uses Python for embedded scripting!

The most important is not picking a language though but to get started. Take some time (max 30min) to check out what language suits you most, download something like WAMP (no reason you shouldn't, anyway) and you are ready to go!

[Chris]

The most important is not picking a language though but to get started. Take some time (max 30min) to check out what language suits you most, download something like WAMP (no reason you shouldn't, anyway) and you are ready to go!

Yes, I agree, check out what language suits you the most and once you decide it is PHP you can start coding  

[dbest]

Yes, I agree, check out what language suits you the most and once you decide it is PHP you can start coding 

You mean, design your game before coding right?

[bbgames]

On the other hand Python is gaining popularity and the owner of bbrowsergames is using Python, so perhaps he even wants to help you get started.

I would be more than happy to help you learn Python - it's got some pretty good documentation, and there are a lot of resources out there to help you learn it.

[zolacat999]

Im going to do a bit of reading up on python, see what that looks like and thanks to everyone for the great response, this is a really great community   

[zolacat999]

Had a look around Python looks interesting, however, my concerns are :

- Harder to learn than PHP
- Lack of resources availability
- Could hosting be an issue if web hosting don't know if python is supported
 
On the other hand bbgames may be able to give me a bit of help in learning it and it would seem to be more powerful
   

[bbgames]

I think whether it's difficult to learn or not is up to you - while I picked up Perl straight away, PHP was a lot harder - whereas a lot of PHP programmers I've talked to have started with Perl and then decided it was too hard before they switched to PHP.

Dive Into Python is a good online book for learning Python, and if you're planning on hooking it up with Django(my framework of choice), there's also The Django Book to get you started there.

Hosting is a bit of an issue(at least for Django projects - I can't speak to pure python/wsgi), as the framework is geared more towards situations where you have a dedicated server or a VPS - but you can host them on Dreamhost, they have a wiki article here.

I can't really speak to the 'lack of resources availability' - the Python documentation is solid, and most of the Python frameworks I've seen are equally well documented.

[Nox]

We had Python one semestr and I really liked it, although it really seemed harder than PHP it also seemed more powerful

I think it's documented well and I've seen many hostings so far....not that frequently as PHP but still supported enough

This is what we got to train our python skill for test

Code: [Select]

print filter(None,map(lambda y:y*reduce(lambda x,y:x*y!=0, map(lambda x,y=y:y%x,range(2,int(pow(y,0.5)+1))),1),range(2,10)))

A: [1, 2, 3, 4]
B: [1, 1, 2, 3]
C: [2, 3, 5, 7]
D: [2, 4, 6, 8]

fortunately it was not that insane in the end....I wasn't able to crack this one anyway
(and don't know which option is correct)

That said...personally I'd likely still choose PHP and I'm not sure I'd recommend Python to someone new, but bbgames knows it better than me so if he thinks it's ok...

[Qwerty]

I think PHP would be a better choice for you to start with as its easy to learn, and there are thousands of tutorials and scripts avaliable on the internet. Plus many of the other members here know how to use PHP and can help if you need it.

If you're looking for a webserver package that can be easily installed on Windows, you can try AppServ, which is what I use. www.appservnetwork.com

[zolacat999]

Im not sure now which is better mixed feelings, I don't want to start python and then find it to hard half way through and then switch to PHP.   

[Xavier]

You can equally succeed or fail using either one. For the purpose of programming PBBG which is based on server requests they both work ok. So I would say, pick up a book, read some forums, write simple scripts in both and decide which one suits you better.

[JGadrow]

Agreed, it's all about what suits you best. I prefer PHP simply because I feel it reads like plain english. Also, my decision was partly influenced by the large number of available PHP/MySQL/Apache jobs in my area. I figured if I was picking up a new skill... I might as well be able to make a living from it in the short-term.

The down side of that logic is... now I code all day so that I don't feel much like coding my own projects when I get home. lol

[zolacat999]

Just out of curiosity could you give a ball park figure of how much you get paid as a Programmer. ( don't worry if you don't want to say)

[JGadrow]

Currently, I make about $50k. I've had offers for more but for this company I'm the Lead Software Developer and will be in charge of setting up their development environment once my current project is completed. So, it's better for the resume to take a slight pay cut right now.

I started my first programming job at $15 / hour (about $30k). That was about 3 years ago. So, as long as you can demonstrate that you're knowledgable, and work on building your skill set, the pay can ramp up pretty quickly.

**Edit - I should probably note that I wrote my first "Hello World" program when I was 6 and have dabbled in various languages since. So, I do have about 20 years of programming theory undery my belt. And, while I still hope to get a degree one of these days, I have learned first-hand that education is absolutely no substitute for experience.

[shoespeak]

For some reason I thought that Python was slower than PHP, but I guess I really am not qualified to make that statement.

When I first was learning PHP and MySql, I downloaded uniserver. It is very easy to install and run. It bascially lets you create a web server (apache) on your local machine. It comes with PHP, MySql, phpMyAdmin (to access the SQL) and probably some other things.

This way I could create PHP scripts and just save them into the uniserver folder, and run on my local machine (by typing localhost://my-file.php)  This was a great way to learn PHP and MySQL.....also I downloaded the PHP documentation, it is really helpful. This is what I would suggest if you are trying to learn PHP and MySQL. You don't really need to be putting your test files, hello world programs, etc online yet, so just use Uniserver.

[jannesiera]

Im not sure now which is better mixed feelings, I don't want to start python and then find it to hard half way through and then switch to PHP.    

I feel the same like JGadrow, pick what suits you best.

I don't think Python is harder to learn then php, because in general people will always put the language they started with up front. So when you hear php is easier to learn than Python that probably just means that those people started with php and tried Python later on (which is pretty common, since php is more widely used than Python). It's true more people on this forum can help you with php but on the other hand bbgames is willing to help you out so you will be fine.

You can't make a good decision what is really best for you if you haven't had any programming experiences before. I suggest you pick the one that seems "cooler" to you. You will be fine whatever language you choose anyway. Just pick one.

Do you want to share anything about your project / design, btw? We can always give you advice on design, security, management, problems... anything really, this isn't just a forum for coding . If you want to you could start a threat in the "Projects" sub-forum but off course you don't have to.

[JGadrow]

If you want to you could start a threat in the "Projects" sub-forum but off course you don't have to.

I would recommend that you don't start threats at all! They're generally frowned upon!

Sorry, Janne, the voices in my head said that I had to do that!

[jannesiera]

If you want to you could start a threat in the "Projects" sub-forum but off course you don't have to.

I would recommend that you don't start threats at all! They're generally frowned upon!

Sorry, Janne, the voices in my head said that I had to do that!

No problem, I'm happy if I could make you laugh .

[zolacat999]

I do need to get more of my ideas from brain to paper but once I have done that then ill create a post. Slowly getting their with my language. I know you cannot put a time frame on a project but roughly how long does it take to create bbg's I assume it takes a very long time.   

[jannesiera]

I do need to get more of my ideas from brain to paper but once I have done that then ill create a post. Slowly getting their with my language. I know you cannot put a time frame on a project but roughly how long does it take to create bbg's I assume it takes a very long time.   

It surely can take a while. Depends on how much hours / week you can devote to it off course. When you are totally new to programming I would say it can take about 6 months - 1 year to create a simple text browser based game (think maffia / rpg style games). Could be more or could be less, others may have a different perspective on this though.