Are artists hard to find?

[trollface666]

So why do the majority of Browser games lack any original or real graphics?

What perplexes me are 'professional' companies who just churn out the same text based garbage, but giving it a pretty main page to fool players.

Are artist truly hard to find or something? What is your reason?

I ask this as an artist. I am not a coder. So I only see this issue from my point of view. I guess this question really gauges how well I can do in this genre as an artist.

( I was trying to word this as to not offend anyone, but it was hard, so I just wrote it as is. If anyone feels I am insulting them, then I am sorry. )

[JGadrow]

I'm assuming they must be as if you look through the entries for this contest you'll see lots of statements like: 'need an artist' lol

As far as the lack of art on browser games, art is a time-consuming and expensive endeavor. Many games put graphics on the back-burner until they've managed to secure some sort of revenue to warrant their production.

In my case, I'm a jack-of-all-trades which helps and hurts lol. Because I CAN do the art, I have a really hard time bringing myself to allow others to do it. However, I rarely have the TIME to do the art.

[zenanthor]

I ask this as an artist. I am not a coder.

Im a coder, not so much an artist....
lucky for me I have somoeone working with me on graphics and styling.
My game, and many games are made as an hobby. And dont have much funding for paying for custom graphics.

[trollface666]

Ah, I see.... Luckily for my Coder, I work for 'free'. Instead of paying me and tossing me to the side ( which is what some artists dislike ) I am a partner in the game, so when it starts to make any money, I get paid.

I guess that's what it comes down to for me. I don't like really getting paid for my work per se, but rather partnerships if the game becomes popular. So my 2+ months of drawing is really an investment. the game is a flop, its no skin off the Coders back. This way, I put a lot of the risk on my end, but hey, if this gets me possible money in the future, then it is worth the risk to me.

Then again, I understand how hard it can be for either side to find trustworthy partners.

[Chris]

When I was making PC games it was very easy. I just went on usenet/gfx forum, shouted "we are making a new game and need 2 lowpoly artists, 1 texture artist, you will not be paid at all unless we make big bucks from this project which is very unlikely" and... then I was sorting out the resumes It was a paradise. Everyone wants to make a standalone RPG in full 3D on PC. And they were very good artists and they did not care about payment at all.

On the other hand when I make webbased game... Well, most "artists" around simply sux, they don't even know what CharacterStudio or Maya or even Poser is (I know even some who use MS Paint!). Just some kids who thought that making web gfx is easy so they went for it. And there are no free artists here. Everyone thinks that if a game has thousand of players it must be profitable. Sorry, but there are no professional companies involved here, it is a myth. They are just a bunch of people who run these games (usually having a daily job/college at the same time). Sure, there are the few who made the huge cash, but it is an extreme minority (and they have their own artists already).

The other problem is the quality required. You can't, just can't afford to be average, or even good. It is not enough. If you have merely good gfx, then it would be better to not have gfx at all. In some cases is just easier/better/cheaper to make purely text based game and pretend to be "underground"

Another thing is lack of pressure for gfx. When you make PC game, you just must have it no matter what. On the other hand, when you make a web game you already lost the gfx race (due to WoW, EverQuest and other client based games) no matter what you do. Also you will have a higher percentage of players who don't care about gfx (if they do, they would be playing WoW instead) or can't use highly gfx intense games (playing from workplace or other place where it is not desired/allowed).

Do not forget about the server costs as well. According to my data, there might be even 50 times difference in the hardware cost between similar size games! Althrough it is a rare and extreme example (I hope).

Another factor is the difficulty of implementing gfx. Unless you make it from the very start you can't do it easily later. But you can not do it at the start since you don't have the cash yet. Once you grow and get the cash you don't really want to make it (since you already are successful, why make changes then, right?)


For me the thing is simple. If I can afford you then you are not good enough. If you are good enough I can not afford you

[jannesiera]

Well, I'm making a game and I want it to be stylish and shiny. I have this picture in my head and I want it to be like that. Now, I think it will be VERY hard to accomplish that, but I'll just keep searching for artists who want to make graphics for me. I'll just take everything what I can get, but i'm paying nothing, offcourse . That's how I'm planning to do this . (At the beginning I started looking for an artist I just asked some of my friends and after asking 4 or 5 people I had allready 2 artists!)

[trollface666]

Well, I'm making a game and I want it to be stylish and shiny. I have this picture in my head and I want it to be like that. Now, I think it will be VERY hard to accomplish that, but I'll just keep searching for artists who want to make graphics for me. I'll just take everything what I can get, but i'm paying nothing, offcourse . That's how I'm planning to do this . (At the beginning I started looking for an artist I just asked some of my friends and after asking 4 or 5 people I had allready 2 artists!)

Ask artists to do what I do. Work for free until the game is released, then the artist makes a monthly profit. Have the artist and you sign a contract so that the artist keeps his art and you keep your code.

I find that many coders act like their code in untouchable, yet feel that artists should work for 3 bucks a picture then give up the rights for the picture. I have found out recently from a few friends that this is why they don't bother doing browser games, they feel  insulted by coders.

How would a coder feel if he hired an artist, but when the game is finished the rights for the code gets passed to the artist?

And its also a mentality. Coders feel they need to 'hire' artists. Make the artist feel like an equal instead of a tool. Have the artist hire you

[Helderic]

If do a partnership then there would probably be a dispute about how much should be shared. Should it be shared like 50/50? One may take longer, etc.

[zenanthor]

Ofcource, should the game make profit, im willing to pay the designer and those helping on the game. But saying like 50/50, is not an option.

At moment we do not have any agreement on the profit sharing.
Over the last 3 years I have been paying for server, advertisments and all costs.

We have worked together for several years now.

The graphic designer has done the work on volenteer basis. Becuse he simply, just as me, love to make games and sites. Money has not been much of a goal. He has done work on several other games as well, and is a hobby of his.

We have talked about doing other projects together, becuse we make a very good team.

Or even founding a company together

[Chris]

You ore overlooking a tiny little small detail. The profit is not shared into 2 parts between coder/artists, it is shared into 3 parts between administrator/coder/artist.
Writing the code+making gfx is one thing, keeping it online is another. Someone needs to not sleep sometimes because the server crashed in the late evening, someone needs th read all the emails and answer them, someone needs to take care about promotion... OK, no need to post it all, but the list is huge, very huge.
Most people make the mistake by thinking that BBG is about writing the game and making the content, sorry to disillusion you, but it is the easy part The hell starts after that
Would you take an artist as an equal and work for him the rest of your life day after day, just becuase he spent a few months making gfx during the first year the game was online? Not likely...
On the other hand you usually need a full time coder because of unexpected bugs, new features, or simply because the code is not optimised enough for the hardware. The most usual partnership combo is coder and administrator+hardware maintenance+marketing guy.

The situation is different if the artist is an admin as well. Oh yes, this changes everything and might be worth it. But... in such case you still are lured by the "administration" part, the "artist" part is just an addition, nice one, but not absolutely required.

How would a coder feel if he hired an artist, but when the game is finished the rights for the code gets passed to the artist?

I bet 99% of coders would feel absolutely nothing they will just say "how much?" or "thanks, I do not work for hire"

And its also a mentality. Coders feel they need to 'hire' artists. Make the artist feel like an equal instead of a tool. Have the artist hire you

Equal artist/coder relationship is possible on standalone game. You just work on it, release it and forget. Maybe the coder needs to make a patch or two, but that's all. The effort is more or less equal. On the BBG it is always the guy who manage the game and keep the servers online the one who suffer the most (at least to my experience, I dream that there is a land far, far away where it is not true ).

[Helderic]

You ore overlooking a tiny little small detail. The profit is not shared into 2 parts between coder/artists, it is shared into 3 parts between administrator/coder/artist.

Well I was assuming the coder would maintain it. I really didn't think tho.

[zenanthor]

If I decide to work for another game, owned by someone else, I accpet that the work I do is to be considered theirs. If I wherent happy with that, then I would not do the work in the first place. I would charge a price that made me feel happy about doing the work.

But I would not be whining afterwards

Are artists hard to find?
No, but getting loyal, truthfull and good ppl (designers, moderators, story writters etc) can be tricky.

[jannesiera]

I like to see it like the 'Project manager' who makes all desisions, hires people, etc. Most of the time he also is coder + admin.

So no matter who he hires (artist/coder/amdin/moderator/...) he is the one who can decide who gets profit and stands above the other ones. So he isn't equal to anyone .

As long as people are willing to do the work there's no problem. Even if it is for no money or for a crappy boss.

Are artists hard to find?
No, but getting loyal, truthfull and good ppl (designers, moderators, story writters etc) can be tricky.

I think he's right ^^.

[davidjwest]

One of my best friends, going back over 25 years is an awesome artist, both in real life and on a virtual canvas.  He does a lot of freelance work and consequently rarely has time to do anything for me.

 

I sometimes find people willing to do some work for me on the forums (BBG related) that I frequent, but it is tough.  I think the problem is that graphics are more time consuming than you think and artists are unwilling to commit a lot of their time to a project that they will have little input or interest in.

I'm a coder who can't do art for toffee and can only just about manage to code.

 

[gostyloj]

I have only found one artist that I liked and actually gave me art after we agreed to work together and this is through several games.  I have always approached it with the "you make money if I make money" stance.  Unfortunately the project we were working on never got finished so I feel like I let him down.  He doesn't talk to me anymore so he may feel the same way.

I know that making art is really time consuming and it seems that artists will just stop working if they are not getting paid.  It is hard to find an artist with a good work ethic because it is hard to find people with a good work ethic.

As I get older I find that more artists in my peer group are even less likely to agree to even start the project because they know that they are basically working for nothing.  I am ok working for nothing though my aspirations are a great deal higher.

But even though I offer all the things you are talking about (profit sharing, maintained ownership of art) I find it very difficult to find an artist willing to and able to do art for me.